08-31-2021, 07:54 AM | #1 | ||
Diligent dilettante
Posts: 3,406
Karma: 47613872
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: in my mind
Device: Kobo Sage; Kobo Libra H2O
|
Excessive liberty is bad!
This is not a political post, but my reaction to a line I just read in The Jungle Book in Hindi. Since the English original was published in 1894 and its sequel in 1895, the following line REALLY jarred
"बिलकुल ब्लैक एंड व्हाइट सिनेमा की तरह लग रहा था" The large bolded text are English words written in devanagari: "black and white cinema". So the whole line reads basically "looked exactly like black and white cinema" I've long felt the Jungle Book belonged in Hindi, especially since Hindustani was Kipling's L1 until around 5 yo, and I loved the Hindi dub of the 2016 movie so much I haven't watched the English version. I've been enjoying the translation so far, but this anachronistic paraphrasing was very irksome. The translator did say in his foreword that he was aiming the translation at kids, but even so, this seems a bit much. Here's the original passage: Quote:
Quote:
How do you react to this kind of VERY loose translation? |
||
08-31-2021, 07:58 AM | #2 |
Zealot
Posts: 145
Karma: 8302546
Join Date: Oct 2011
Device: kindle
|
Translation is an art more than a science. If the translator tries to be too literal, the result will be unpleasant to read, so some liberties are necessary, and more if the style is not plain and simple.
However, I have to agree with you. Anachronisms are distracting and can take the reader out of the story. |
Advert | |
|
08-31-2021, 08:03 AM | #3 |
Addict
Posts: 280
Karma: 2228060
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: LaVernia, Texas
Device: kindle epub readers on android
|
I spoke another language as a boy before relocating to the USA. I recall the pithy "Translations are like wives -- the beautiful ones are sometimes not faithful and the non-beautiful ones are sometimes faithful." Sometimes the translation surpasses both beautiful and faithful and is great art in its own right. Best regards, Pop
|
08-31-2021, 08:04 AM | #4 | |
Diligent dilettante
Posts: 3,406
Karma: 47613872
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: in my mind
Device: Kobo Sage; Kobo Libra H2O
|
Quote:
Kipling made no comparison of the scene to something else, he didn't say for example "it was like a street artist's pencil sketch". Had he made some sort of comparison like that, then substituting a more relevant modern reference might be justifiable. Simply inserting one seems wrong, when I doubt any kids would have trouble reading the passage without it. It comes across like a narrrator's aside, which I was fine with in The Princess Bride, but feels out of place here |
|
08-31-2021, 08:06 AM | #5 | |
Diligent dilettante
Posts: 3,406
Karma: 47613872
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: in my mind
Device: Kobo Sage; Kobo Libra H2O
|
Quote:
And imo, this case is neither faithful nor beautiful, and definitely not great art, hence my adverse reaction. |
|
Advert | |
|
08-31-2021, 09:05 AM | #6 |
Brash Fumbler
Posts: 1,140
Karma: 8290493
Join Date: May 2013
Device: NST, Kobo Mini
|
It's a double anachronism, since any child reading the book today has probably never seen black-and-white cinema.
|
08-31-2021, 02:58 PM | #7 | |
Diligent dilettante
Posts: 3,406
Karma: 47613872
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: in my mind
Device: Kobo Sage; Kobo Libra H2O
|
Quote:
The other thing that made it odd to me is that in earlier chapters the author used a lot of very Sanskritised Hindi words, which has the effect of making the book "feel old". Tis might have been a deliberate choice to replicate Kipling's now 'antique' English, but if so, the cinema reference is out of place for yet another reason. |
|
09-01-2021, 09:36 AM | #8 |
Professor of Law
Posts: 3,629
Karma: 65526796
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Device: Kobo Elipsa, Kobo Libra H20, Kobo Aura One, KoboMini
|
There is a longstanding argument in the Tolstoy community over the Pevear & Volokhonsky translation of War and Peace that was published in 2007. It got a lot of attention at the time due to Oprah Winfrey featuring it. Richard Pevear and his wife Larissa Volokhonsky have done quite a few Russian translations.
I got the original printing (beautiful deckled edge binding) the day it came out. I threw my back out 2 days later and spent almost an entire week with it in my recliner nonstop. I much prefer it to the Briggs (2005) translation, but you can find quite a few folks fighting over it online. |
09-01-2021, 10:02 AM | #9 | |
the rook, bossing Never.
Posts: 10,783
Karma: 83992591
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: Ireland
Device: All 4 Kinds: epub eink, Kindle, android eink, NxtPaper11
|
Quote:
Supermarkets sell old B&W content on DVD and it's on streaming and Internet. Also a 55" 4K TV is cheaper than the cinema for a family. My grandchildren prefer the 1930s & 1950s editions of classic books, not "modernised". The publishers reverted some changes they made on "the Famous Five". They have no difficulty with E. Nesbit either which is a lot more archaic than Famous Five. I have a lot of early published Kipling, before Puck of Pook Hill. In better condition than some 50 years younger books. Last edited by Quoth; 09-01-2021 at 10:09 AM. |
|
09-01-2021, 10:03 AM | #10 |
Zealot
Posts: 145
Karma: 8302546
Join Date: Oct 2011
Device: kindle
|
I did some comparing, just reading the same passages in several translations, and I'm no fan of Pevear & Volokhonsky. For me the prose doesn't flow well in their translations, but of course that's a very subjective thing.
|
09-01-2021, 10:06 AM | #11 |
Professor of Law
Posts: 3,629
Karma: 65526796
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Device: Kobo Elipsa, Kobo Libra H20, Kobo Aura One, KoboMini
|
Yeah, and that seems to be where most folks are. If you like the one, you don't like the other at all and vice versa.
|
09-01-2021, 10:18 AM | #12 | ||
Diligent dilettante
Posts: 3,406
Karma: 47613872
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: in my mind
Device: Kobo Sage; Kobo Libra H2O
|
Quote:
Quote:
|
||
09-01-2021, 10:23 AM | #13 | |
Professor of Law
Posts: 3,629
Karma: 65526796
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Chapel Hill, NC
Device: Kobo Elipsa, Kobo Libra H20, Kobo Aura One, KoboMini
|
Quote:
|
|
09-01-2021, 10:27 AM | #14 |
Diligent dilettante
Posts: 3,406
Karma: 47613872
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: in my mind
Device: Kobo Sage; Kobo Libra H2O
|
Which is why I liked the tenor of his advice - if you like it, and it resonates with you, go with it.
|
09-01-2021, 10:50 AM | #15 |
o saeclum infacetum
Posts: 20,139
Karma: 222000000
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: New England
Device: H2O, Aura One, PW5
|
I decided I preferred the Dunnigan translation and when I reread it last year I combined Dunnigan with the P&V footnotes. The best of both worlds!
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Thread Starter | Forum | Replies | Last Post |
Touch Excessive Battery Use? | kevn57 | Barnes & Noble NOOK | 106 | 09-18-2012 08:26 AM |
PRS-T1 Excessive screen flashing? | chrisridd | Sony Reader | 8 | 11-02-2011 04:28 PM |
Troubleshooting Excessive Charge Time on Kindle3 | jocampo | Amazon Kindle | 16 | 06-27-2011 02:57 PM |
Slow -- excessive cpu utilization | Ozzy | Calibre | 23 | 02-15-2011 11:55 AM |
Excessive profanity in books | JLeighs | General Discussions | 215 | 11-05-2010 08:24 PM |