Classic Firmware update to smooth things out?

[ifonline]

Originally Posted by supermighty

Just because you don't know a bug exist doesn't mean there are no bugs.

There are always bugs.

No, there are not. The more complex the software, the more likely this statement is true. However, it is absolutely not true 100% of the time.

[jmaloney]

Originally Posted by Ocean

I'm a computer engineer. This is not true.

Do you have any examples of a piece of software that doesn't have any bugs?

[ifonline]

I can write you one if you wish. Give me about five minutes. Just so you know... it will run, display "Hello world!" and then stop. I can guarantee no bugs. It is software, and it will be bug free.

And before you brush this example off, just bear in mind that it proves that there is software with no bugs. As I said earlier, the more complex the code, the more likely there will be bugs. But there is no way to say, with absolute certainty, that all software has bugs.

[Nitrousoxide]

Originally Posted by ifonline

I can write you one if you wish. Give me about five minutes. Just so you know... it will run, display "Hello world!" and then stop. I can guarantee no bugs.

Any program that does non-trivial tasks is likely to have bugs.

[jmaloney]

Yeah, I was just about to add in that "Hello World" doesn't count. I think it's apparent that we're talking about a reasonably complex piece of software, as opposed to one that does a single very basic task.

[ifonline]

Ah... so now you need to qualify your statements so that they can be made true. Got it.

[supermighty]

3 December 2009 - Linux 2.6.32 was released (12,606,910 lines of code) via

12 million lines of code in the kernel alone. Is that big enough for a bug or two?

So yes, a small hello world "application" that prints one line could be free of bugs.

[phenomshel]

It's a correlary of Murphy's law. Everything takes longer than you think it will. The computer works perfectly for the tech you called to repair it. And there are ALWAYS, always, always, bugs.

[jmaloney]

Originally Posted by ifonline

Ah... so now you need to qualify your statements so that they can be made true. Got it.

I assumed that given the context of my statement that such a clarification was not necessary. Clearly I misunderstood the need for absolute precision in every comment I make here. I'll do better in the future.

Wait, I mean I'll try to do better in the future, because I'm obviously not a psychic, so I can't predict everything I might do at some indeterminate point in the future.

[Mr. Goodbar]

Originally Posted by jmaloney

I assumed that given the context of my statement that such a clarification was not necessary. Clearly I misunderstood the need for absolute precision in every comment I make here. I'll do better in the future.

Wait, I mean I'll try to do better in the future, because I'm obviously not a psychic, so I can't predict everything I might do at some indeterminate point in the future.

I'm not sure there is enough forum space for that level of precision I think your comments were very clear in the context of the discussion. As a past and current software industry executive, there are always bugs if the application does anything relevant or useful

[Kolenka]

Originally Posted by jasonkchapman

That's why I still use my Sony 500. No buttons. No gadgets. No gizmos. Just reading. There are times when I think device evolution hit its peak with that unit.

I might agree, the Sony 500/505s are pretty simple devices that do what they set out to do pretty well... the downside is that their hardware engineers need to take an ergonomics class. The nook and Kindle both blow the Sony Readers out of the water in that area, and it isn't anything you have to drastically change the complexity of the device to fix, either.

[Kolenka]

Originally Posted by Mr. Goodbar

I'm not sure there is enough forum space for that level of precision I think your comments were very clear in the context of the discussion. As a past and current software industry executive, there are always bugs if the application does anything relevant or useful

There's an awful lot of tech geeks in the room here. I think I count at least 3-4 people who claim to be part of the software industry (not including myself, so that makes 4-5).

And the point you bring up gets worse the more hands you have in the pot. In practically all eReaders on the market, you have some variant of Linux. Then you have Adobe's SDK on a chunk of them too. And then in the case of the nook, you have Google's GUI render and other bits on top of Linux... and then you have B&N's code.

So not only is B&N responsible for working on their own code, but they are likely responsible for understanding Google's code and fixing it if needed, as well as finding patches/etc for the Linux code. And if there's a bug in the Adobe SDK? Well, you just gotta work around that. It's a mish-mash.

I know when I first got hired by the company I work at, it took nearly 6 months for me to get familiar with the code that my team worked on that was already written. It took a year before I was nearly as productive as the rest of the team. Software development on this scale (even for such a small and 'simple' device) is maddening at times at just how much can go wrong, and no one person will ever understand it all.

[kacir]

Originally Posted by Nitrousoxide

If you can manage to go anywhere in the world except for Africa or Antarctica for 6 days without finding a power source I'd be surprised.

Well, when I go camping I do appreciate that my reader can last a week without charging.
There IS power available at camp, yet, there is no power socket where I can leave my reader to charge for a few hours *unattended*. I guess, I could ask somebody in main office or in pub if I could leave my device for charging there but ...

[Mr. Goodbar]

Originally Posted by Kolenka

There's an awful lot of tech geeks in the room here. I think I count at least 3-4 people who claim to be part of the software industry (not including myself, so that makes 4-5).

And the point you bring up gets worse the more hands you have in the pot. In practically all eReaders on the market, you have some variant of Linux. Then you have Adobe's SDK on a chunk of them too. And then in the case of the nook, you have Google's GUI render and other bits on top of Linux... and then you have B&N's code.

So not only is B&N responsible for working on their own code, but they are likely responsible for understanding Google's code and fixing it if needed, as well as finding patches/etc for the Linux code. And if there's a bug in the Adobe SDK? Well, you just gotta work around that. It's a mish-mash.

I know when I first got hired by the company I work at, it took nearly 6 months for me to get familiar with the code that my team worked on that was already written. It took a year before I was nearly as productive as the rest of the team. Software development on this scale (even for such a small and 'simple' device) is maddening at times at just how much can go wrong, and no one person will ever understand it all.

You are absolutely correct. The complexity of even relatively simple devices is staggering these days, especially when you add in the wireless carriers and associated certifications.

An interesting thing to think about is the progression of "code" in the average automobile. Cars are quickly becoming just another distribution model for software!

[gigercounter]

Originally Posted by Ocean

Imagine you go to a restaurant and the waiter brings you your plate and tells you: "It will be best if you take it home and reheat it tomorrow. The flavors come together better that way."

Why serve your guests a dish thats not at its best when you bring it to the table?

I guess thats why they came out with Kindle 2