Fleming estate to publish James Bond e-books

[SensualPoet]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

the standard price of an Amazon Kindle edition for a new book is $9.99

Yes, for New York Times Bestsellers. Ian Fleming's somewhat dated Bond novels are not in that class -- and there are 14 of them. The estate should certainly do some price elasticity testing but their goal is to sell as many copies of as many titles as possible. A more realistic price, relative to current blockbusters, is more likely to maximise sales by encouraging volume.

JA Konrath has already plainly demonstrated how much better he is employing an ebook model with a higher royalty and lower price than trying to sell stuff at $10 or more.

[Blue Tyson]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

And if you are willing to acquire a paper book instead of an ebook, and price is the determining factor, the pbook is what you buy. If you insist on an electronic edition, you pay the retail price or look on the darknet and hope to find a quality version. The vast majority of ebook buyers don't go to the darknet. If their idea of an ebook is a Kindle edition, they may be unaware of the darknet, and even if they are, convenience rules. If they can simply go online, pay for and download the book and start reading now, that may well be more valuable to them than the cost savings of a darknet copy. What value do you place on your time?

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Dennis

These have been on the Darknet for many years, of course. Downloading them from there is certainly quicker than messing around with Digital Editions, for one. So if my time is valuable, certainly much smarter to get the free, no software needed, no DRM stripping time-wasting to be done, etc...

Plus you will be able to get a version of ALL of them zipped in a bundle - so only need to download once. Compare that to doing all the above 14 times. So going on a time analysis, you are a crazy person to pay for them.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

Yes, for New York Times Bestsellers. Ian Fleming's somewhat dated Bond novels are not in that class -- and there are 14 of them. The estate should certainly do some price elasticity testing but their goal is to sell as many copies of as many titles as possible. A more realistic price, relative to current blockbusters, is more likely to maximise sales by encouraging volume.

JA Konrath has already plainly demonstrated how much better he is employing an ebook model with a higher royalty and lower price than trying to sell stuff at $10 or more.

With all due respect to J. A. Konrath, he's not Ian Fleming, and his main current creation, Lt. Jaqueline "Jack" Daniels isn't international icon James Bond. His strategy may be appropriate for him. It won't necessarily be appropriate for other properties.

The estate's goal is maximizing revenue, which is not the same thing as maximizing unit sales. They may make more money at a lower price, but neither of us know that. You simply believe it to be the case, which is a different matter. (You may be right. But if there were a way of determining the optimum price for this sort of thing that wasn't "trial and error", you can assume the estate would use it, and we wouldn't be having this conversation.)

You're a member of the second class of readers I spoke of: you've already read the books, consider them "somewhat dated", and don't think they're worth $10 each to you. As mentioned, I think the majority of those buying the ebook editions will be new readers attracted by the films and Bond's iconic status. They'll likely attach a higher value to them than you will.
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Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Blue Tyson

These have been on the Darknet for many years, of course. Downloading them from there is certainly quicker than messing around with Digital Editions, for one. So if my time is valuable, certainly much smarter to get the free, no software needed, no DRM stripping time-wasting to be done, etc...

Plus you will be able to get a version of ALL of them zipped in a bundle - so only need to download once. Compare that to doing all the above 14 times. So going on a time analysis, you are a crazy person to pay for them.

But you're aware of the darknet, and where to find them. It's a matter of a few minutes for you to get all 14 as a bundle. So for you, if we put aside the ethical issues, paying any price for the Bond books would be crazy.

The mistake I think too many people in this sort of discussion make is assuming they're representative, and that everyone else reading ebooks knows what they know and does what they do. Do you assume everybody who buys things things like Kindle editions from Amazon knows about the darknet and where to find what they want to read? If you do, explain how Amazon manages to sell any Kindle editions at their default price, let alone other ebook sellers selling other volumes at even higher prices.

Most of the ebook buying market doesn't know about or chooses not to use the darknet, and simply pays for and downloads what they get.
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Dennis

[Blue Tyson]

No, I never said anything about everybody. I was only talking about the time is money argument.

That will always be the case though - the less skilled, less knowledgeable, less intelligent or whatever combination consumer is always going to end up spending more.

[Blue Tyson]

However, talking about the Australian public - a rather large percentage of whom most definitely do know how to find darknet stuff thanks to the music, tv and movie industries training them to...not much of a stretch to make the leap to 'hey, books too'!

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Blue Tyson

No, I never said anything about everybody. I was only talking about the time is money argument.

Yes, as it related to you. But as mentioned, you aren't representative. I was talking about the overall ebook buying audience.

That will always be the case though - the less skilled, less knowledgeable, less intelligent or whatever combination consumer is always going to end up spending more.

Or choosing to pay more for whatever reason.

The basic question is "Is $10 each a reasonable starting price for an official ebook edition of Ian Fleming's James Bond novels?" The estate thinks so, and I can see reasons for that belief. If they makes sales and generate revenue and profit along the lines they think they can get, that's where the price is likely to stay. If they think they can do better by cutting prices, they may. We'll see what actually happens, but meanwhile "That's a higher price than I would pay!" doesn't necessarily mean it's too high a price, period.
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Dennis

[Krystian Galaj]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

But you're aware of the darknet, and where to find them. It's a matter of a few minutes for you to get all 14 as a bundle. So for you, if we put aside the ethical issues, paying any price for the Bond books would be crazy.

If works both ways though - buying books from Amazon on my iPhone is much more convenient, and quicker than looking for them on Darknet. I bought another one yesterday, I have no idea how much it cost as I didn't look at the price, I only got sms from my bank that they charged the card - but the book downloaded into reader right then, ready to read. Maybe I have it already, maybe not, I'm sure looking for it on Darknet, or on my hard drive would take at least a few minutes more, not to mention conversion time and having to load it onto iPhone, and that was the deciding factor. Convenience, not ethics/morality/cost.

[SensualPoet]

I will say this: the Ian Fleming Estate Editions carry a list price of $14 and Sony Reader store is offering these at $12.50 ... 10% off ... while Amazon is selling them at $9.89, 5% less than they sell the paper editions. So, if you are going to take the plunge, .azw looks a lot more attractive than .epub to me!

(Aside: interestingly, B&N appears to have stopped selling ebooks and now only carries "NookBooks". Alas, they don't offer Ian Fleming's Bond series electronically. Nor does the Overdrive public library epub distributor.)

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by SensualPoet

I will say this: the Ian Fleming Estate Editions carry a list price of $14 and Sony Reader store is offering these at $12.50 ... 10% off ... while Amazon is selling them at $9.89, 5% less than they sell the paper editions. So, if you are going to take the plunge, .azw looks a lot more attractive than .epub to me!

If price is your determining factor, so it is.

Of course, this assumes you have the capability to read both formats. Folks who don't will have problems.

And if you have the capability (which you do), you have the problem I do on a multi-function device: recalling which book is in which format viewed with which device/app.

(Aside: interestingly, B&N appears to have stopped selling ebooks and now only carries "NookBooks". Alas, they don't offer Ian Fleming's Bond series electronically. Nor does the Overdrive public library epub distributor.)

So B&N is trying to brand ebooks to associate them with the nook/nook app? No surprise, and it shouldn't create too much confusion.

As for the Bond books, the Fleming estate just announced they'd be rolling their own ebook editions. I'd expect Amazon and the Kindle to be the first target, with others to hopefully follow, so the question is whether Overdrive will offer them down the road. I suspect they will, but can't be sure.
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Dennis

[HarryT]

All the Bond ebooks are on Amazon UK at around the £4.50 mark. This is very much in line with other back-catalogue authors and seems pretty reasonable to me.

[SensualPoet]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

Of course, this assumes you have the capability to read both formats. Folks who don't will have problems.

Folks who don't have an iPad can't buy iBooks. Am I missing your point? Of course you need a player to read the file. You can't borrow a library book without a valid library card either.

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

As for the Bond books, the Fleming estate just announced they'd be rolling their own ebook editions. I'd expect Amazon and the Kindle to be the first target, with others to hopefully follow, so the question is whether Overdrive will offer them down the road. I suspect they will, but can't be sure.

Both Amazon Kindle and Sony eReader stores list the current Bond books as "Published by: Ian Fleming Publications Limited" and date from 2008. The paperbacks are published by Penguin and date from 2002/2003. I would presume the Fleming estate has had a hand in these as well. The cover art work between the Penguin pbooks and the existing ebooks is different.

[NightGeometry]

Originally Posted by DMcCunney

But you're aware of the darknet, and where to find them.
...
Do you assume everybody who buys things things like Kindle editions from Amazon knows about the darknet and where to find what they want to read? If you do, explain how Amazon manages to sell any Kindle editions at their default price, let alone other ebook sellers selling other volumes at even higher prices.

Most of the ebook buying market doesn't know about or chooses not to use the darknet, and simply pays for and downloads what they get.

I bought my mother a Kindle for Christmas. I was talking to her recently, and she was pointing out to me that for some books her only way of getting them on the Kindle is to download dodgy copies. I didn't show her that.

My mother is from a working class background, she is, I think, tremendously intelligent and very sharp, but - she worked as a secretary, not a university professor... She had her 70th birthday a couple of years ago.

My point - if my not exactly cutting edge 70+ mother knows where to go to get dodgy books, I'm pretty much willing to bet a lot of other Kindle owners do too. As another person put it - the music, film and TV companies pretty much trained the population how to use filesharing.

Why would anyone pay for books from Amazon (or any other ebook store), because often it is the best thing to do. However, if a book isn't made available, or is unreasonably priced, then a person may decided they will get it somewhere else.

That is all way off topic, so just to give some semblance of being on topic for £5 I may buy the occasional Bond book. The ones I have read are pretty rubbish, in my opinion, but occasionally entertaining, mostly in a 'can it really have been acceptable to say that' way. They are in the strange category where i'd not bother downloading them, they just don't appeal enough, but I could imagine being on holiday, fancying reading one and just grabbing the Kindle copy.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by NightGeometry

My point - if my not exactly cutting edge 70+ mother knows where to go to get dodgy books, I'm pretty much willing to bet a lot of other Kindle owners do too. As another person put it - the music, film and TV companies pretty much trained the population how to use filesharing.

But convenience rules. Your 70+ year old mother might be aware of where to find dodgy tiles, but can she do it from her Kindle?

What the Kindle offers is instant gratification. Any time, day or night, access Amazon, buy, download, and start reading a Kindle edition.

Sure, you can read dodgy content. But you probably need to actually get it from a PC or a laptop, possibly have to convert it to a form the Kindle will display, then side-load to the Kindle to read it.

An awful lot of folks who could so may simply not want to bother. The convenience of getting of one-stop shopping and getting it right away with a few mouse clicks is worth money to them, and they'll happily spend it for the purchase.

Why would anyone pay for books from Amazon (or any other ebook store), because often it is the best thing to do. However, if a book isn't made available, or is unreasonably priced, then a person may decided they will get it somewhere else.

They may, though more likely, I think, in the "isn't made available" case, where the option for electronic content is to go looking for someone's scan and conversion, and hope you can find one that's decent quality and in a form you can read, or successfully convert to a form you can read.

"Unreasonably priced" is thornier, as what a "reasonable price" is will vary depending on who you talk to, and there's an awful lot of unreality about how cheap an ebook from a major publisher can be.

But ultimately, I think enough of the market is honest and will pay for what they get to make ebooks a successful product for publishers without forcing users to jump through DRM hoops.

That is all way off topic, so just to give some semblance of being on topic

It's perfectly on topic for MR, even if it's afield from this thread.

for £5 I may buy the occasional Bond book. The ones I have read are pretty rubbish, in my opinion, but occasionally entertaining, mostly in a 'can it really have been acceptable to say that' way. They are in the strange category where i'd not bother downloading them, they just don't appeal enough, but I could imagine being on holiday, fancying reading one and just grabbing the Kindle copy.

I read them all in paper, back when, and may still have the paper copies. Mores have certainly changed in the intervening years. I'm vaguely curious as to what my reaction would be to them these days. But not curious enough to make any effort to re-read them. My unread stack is large enough that I tell people the good thing about ebooks is that you don't have to call the paramedics if it topples over on me.
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Dennis

[DJHARKAVY]

I can get the books for $9.99 (slightly less for the older ones) at Amazon, or $12.48 at Sony. The latter would require me to remove DRM if I wanted to read it on my eReader. It would certainly be worth the time to do so for the $35 that it would save me.

The same time required would theoretically allow me to find a torrent with the ebooks already in epub format with all 14 books for nothing. It might take me 15 minutes to half an hour to download a set of them.

I don't mind paying paperback prices for ebooks. I find the portability to be worthwhile. But if I have to pay more, I am not likely to buy the book until the price comes down, and I can see going to the darknets to get a book (if it is available) and I can certainly see wanting to save the time of removing the DRM as well as the cost...