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Old 06-19-2009, 07:28 PM   #1
vivaldirules
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To speak or not to speak the local language when visiting other countries?

May I ask a serious question (or is that forbidden in The Llounge)? A long time ago I gave up trying to speak the native language in the countries I visit. I butcher them (the languages, not the people) badly I'm sure. And it always felt like I was trying to fake being French, for example, when I'm obviously not. So I eventually decided that, out of respect, I should just speak English. And if we don't communicate, it's my fault and no one else's. So I now openly and sincerely express even "hello", "please", "thank you", and so forth in my own language everywhere. But I sense that some (maybe many) people would say that I'm being terribly disrespectful by what I'm doing. I'd love to hear an opinion. What would you suggest is the right thing for me to do?
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Old 06-19-2009, 07:41 PM   #2
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personally, i think it's unrealistic to be expected to speak fluently the language of every country you might visit one day. and not everyone is comfortable with foreign languages, that's just the way it is. so i don't expect every tourist to speak french perfectly when they stop me in the street to ask me directions.

but, i also really appreciate it when a tourist acknowledges the culture of the country they are visiting by making an effort, however small, and it makes all the difference in my response to them. if a tourist says just "bonjour" or "s'il vous plaît" or "je ne parle pas français" or any word or three in french, even badly butchered, i am much more likely to take the time to answer their question than if they talk to me in english and just expect me to understand (why should i ? this is france ! we speak french here !). there area lot of tourists here and it can be exasperating sometimes (i particularly am annoyed by the ones who walk at a snail pace 5 abreast with arms linked in narrow streets, effectively preventing me from passing them, when i am already late for a work meeting), and it makes a big difference when they seem to at least be making some effort to respect the people whose home they are visiting.

likewise, when i travel, i always make sure to know a few basic words in the language of the country i'm visiting, even just "hello, please, thank you" are a good start.

i'm simplifying, of course, because the impression anyone makes depends on a lot more than just one or two words of the local language, and i am sure that you specifically are always polite and charming wherever you are and in whatever language, but i still think a tourist should make that effort. it's the thought that counts, you know ? it's just a little psychological token, but i think it's worth a lot.
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Old 06-19-2009, 07:47 PM   #3
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It's my personal belief that it's my responsibility to learn to say 'hello,' 'thank you,' 'excuse me,' and 'good bye' in the language of any country I visit. I also will learn 'how much does it cost,' 'no thank you,' and 'where is the toilet.' (I can say "Immodium" in 11 languages!)

As a frequent traveler I found it useful to learn the words for numbers as they pertain to money. This has saved me a LOT of money over the years, especially in S.E. Asia where bargaining is the norm. However, my language ability is really pretty poor and I don't seem to be able to learn much more than this. I just finished a comprehensive Japanese course and my only thoughts are that the fellow who invented Japanese grammar was NOT a very nice man...

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Old 06-19-2009, 07:54 PM   #4
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Even when you aren't traveling, it can be polite to know a word or a phrase in a language other than your "milk tongue". In my local Mexican restaurant, I usually say "hola" to the greeter and "gracias" to the young girl who drops off the chips and salsa. (I'll admit that I tend to follow that with the English equivalent -- Hola, hello!.) I don't know much Spanish off the top of my head, so other than attempting to properly pronounce the names of the dishes I'm ordering, that's about it.

I *don't* expect the residents to speak English, so as an English-only speaker, I'm intimidated when I visit a country that isn't English-speaking and prefer to travel with someone who does speak the local language.
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:06 PM   #5
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Even when you aren't traveling, it can be polite to know a word or a phrase in a language other than your "milk tongue". In my local Mexican restaurant, I usually say "hola" to the greeter and "gracias" to the young girl who drops off the chips and salsa. (I'll admit that I tend to follow that with the English equivalent -- Hola, hello!.) I don't know much Spanish off the top of my head, so other than attempting to properly pronounce the names of the dishes I'm ordering, that's about it.
interesting point. we have a very diverse population here and a lot of foreign words have made their way into everyday language, but although i use them myself sometimes it wasn't really from any deliberate intention (and i use them regardless of whether the person i'm talking to is a native speaker). maybe that's because a lot of them are arab words and most of the arab immigrants i come in contact with are pefectly bilingual, so it seems perfectly natural to speak french with them.

Quote:
I *don't* expect the residents to speak English, so as an English-only speaker, I'm intimidated when I visit a country that isn't English-speaking and prefer to travel with someone who does speak the local language.
paris is a very cosmopolitan city with a lot of tourists and plenty of american films in the cinemas, and quite a few people here do speak at least some rudimentary english (some of them butcher it badly), although not *everyone* does (the proportions go up in touristy neighbourhoods and retail shops and restaurants). however, i happen to know that some people will also pretend not to understand a tourist who doesn't say at least "bonjour" and just starts speaking in english. not that i would ever do that myself, of course. well, maybe sometimes. if they are rude. or if they're walking slowly and taking up the entire street...
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:11 PM   #6
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Ok, first of all, I'm really glad you don't butcher the actual people of other countries Thanks for clarifying!

I agree with stitchawl- I believe it is my responsibility to learn the basic "polite" and necessary words (including the word for restroom ) before I go. Of course, I haven't been visiting a non-English speaking country since high school, unfortunately

In hs, one of the places I visited was Germany and I remember getting really frustrated as I was in a store, speaking German (I thought, fairly well, considering my limited years in instruction) and the lady kept talking to me in English. She thought it a great opportunity to practice English, and I thought it the perfect place to try out my German!

Now, for all of you planning to visit Hawai'i... I know you don't think of Hawai'i as a Hawaiian speaking "country" (state), and that's true, it's not (yet! Although it is a state language and the language is making a comeback). *However* there are a lot of Hawaiian words used in everyday vocabulary. When I worked nighttimes at a grocery story, nothing irked me more than dumb old tourists coming in, making fun of all the Hawaiian words "Look, honey, it's a makalakaukapuka! har har har!" That is just rude. To me, trying to pronounce a Hawaiian word and failing miserably is respectable (well, at least not rude!); to intentionally make a mockery of a beautiful and powerful language is just a travesty.
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:20 PM   #7
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but, i also really appreciate it when a tourist acknowledges the culture of the country they are visiting by making an effort, however small, and it makes all the difference in my response to them. if a tourist says just "bonjour" or "s'il vous plaît" or "je ne parle pas français" or any word or three in french, even badly butchered, i am much more likely to take the time to answer their question than if they talk to me in english and just expect me to understand (why should i ? this is france ! we speak french here !).
Thank you, Zee. My assumption was that people would be more offended by bad attempts to speak their language and you've already convinced me that the opposite is probably true. I will hereby change my ways. (doggie trots off to bookstore to buy phrase book for upcoming trip to Australia - I wonder how they say "May I have some more bacon, please?" down there?)
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:20 PM   #8
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I sympathise with your reluctance to butcher a language, but I've usually found that people will tolerate a surprising amount of linguistic terrorism if they can see (hear) that you're making an effort. It may also depend on whether you're visiting on business or pleasure - business may demand a degree of formality and precision that is unattainable to the tourist limited to a couple of pleasantries. I've usually equipped myself with "yes/no/please/thanks/hello/goodbye" as a minimum in my excursions in Europe and this has always helped enormously. (So has a willingness to make a prat of myself in public).
On a slightly more Machiavellian note, I have often found that butchering somebody else's language results in them admitting that they can manage a bit of English with only minimal bloodletting, whereas the stereotypical monoglot Englishman gets no help at all!
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:24 PM   #9
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I'm lucky in that I was apparently born with the language chip. Tend to learn languages pretty quick and pick up the local accents. And if I know in advance I'm going to a foreign country, I work hard learning the language and always find I am well treated.

For example, lots pf Americans complain that the French are unpleasant and arrogant but I have found it to be just the opposite. I don't speak it fluently but just the fact I'm trying seems to make all the difference.
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:49 PM   #10
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I'll be completely honest and say that I am very intimidated about traveling oversees because of the language barriers. It's one of the reasons I haven't travelled outside of the US. Also, being a bit paranoid (as noted by DGma in another thread ) I would be afraid that people would laugh at me when I made a mistake (maybe it's because I spend so much time around children ). But, I do agree that I think it would be better to, at the very least, make an attempt to learn the common courtesy words.

We have a lot of foreign visitors in DC and for some reason people frequently stop and ask me for directions. I'm not sure why I get singled out, my husband is much better at giving directions than I am. I guess I seem approachable . Anyway, I am always enchanted when they try to speak English and I am much more willing to get David to help them when they do.
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Old 06-19-2009, 08:50 PM   #11
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I also tend to feel more helpful to those who try to speak my language when visiting. For that reason, I try to learn basic words when I travel to other countries.

This results in some unusual situations. In an Italian cafe one time, no one spoke English so I tried to ask for a Café mocha (addicted to Starbucks at the time).

I tried to clarify by speaking Spanish (he told me he understood Spanish) and thought we understood each other. The result was a large cup/bowl of warm espresso chocolate pudding! Of course, I had to drink/eat it as they were all so happy to have made it for me... (well, either that or they were all smiling because they put one over on an "American" for a good chunk of money
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:04 PM   #12
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Thank you, Zee. My assumption was that people would be more offended by bad attempts to speak their language and you've already convinced me that the opposite is probably true. I will hereby change my ways. (doggie trots off to bookstore to buy phrase book for upcoming trip to Australia - I wonder how they say "May I have some more bacon, please?" down there?)
i think that translates as "my hovercraft is full of eels." i'm not too sure about the pronunciation though.

i'm very glad to hear you'll try to speak a few words of the language of whatever country you're visiting. it really does make a difference.

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I'm lucky in that I was apparently born with the language chip. Tend to learn languages pretty quick and pick up the local accents. And if I know in advance I'm going to a foreign country, I work hard learning the language and always find I am well treated.

For example, lots pf Americans complain that the French are unpleasant and arrogant but I have found it to be just the opposite. I don't speak it fluently but just the fact I'm trying seems to make all the difference.
well. *some* french are unpleasant and arrogant, every country has a few of those, it's apparently inescapable. but i agree, you're a lot more likely to get a friendly response if you show you're trying.
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:14 PM   #13
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This results in some unusual situations. In an Italian cafe one time, no one spoke English so I tried to ask for a Café mocha (addicted to Starbucks at the time).

I tried to clarify by speaking Spanish (he told me he understood Spanish) and thought we understood each other. The result was a large cup/bowl of warm espresso chocolate pudding! Of course, I had to drink/eat it as they were all so happy to have made it for me... (well, either that or they were all smiling because they put one over on an "American" for a good chunk of money
hee. that reminds me of a story an italian friend of mine told me about german tourists in italian cafés. they go for a nice cool drink, because it's summer in italy and they're half dead from heatstroke, and the waiter asks them "caldo o freddo ?" and the germans enthusiastically say "caldo, caldo !!" because in german, "calt" means "cold". then the waiter brings them a nice cup of piping hot chocolate or tea or something and doesn't understand when they're upset, because in italian, "caldo" means hot.
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Old 06-19-2009, 09:48 PM   #14
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Interesting question!

I so admire people that can speak multiple languages and am embarrassed that English is all I really know, despite 4 years of German in school (in hopes of someday going to Germany, Switzerland and Austria). I don't remember hardly any of it, since I never got a chance to use it.

I have some friends that go on missions trips to Mexico and Central America and they would set up time with a women born in Peru (fluent in both, but English is her second language) to learn and practice conversational Spanish with all of its more natural inflections, expressions and subtle nuances. I would certainly try to do the same if I had the opportunity.

I do recall hearing it said that if you go to France, don't speak the language unless you really know it well... that they would be offended with the misuse of their language. This was a long time ago. Sounds like it's no longer true, if it ever was true at all.
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Old 06-19-2009, 10:15 PM   #15
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When I lived in Italy (Napoli) I used to think that my grasp of Italian was pretty darn good. I learned I was wrong on a trip to Rome. I was driving around the city trying to find my hotel and was hopelessly lost. I decided to ask a gentlemen "Scuzi Senor, dove Albergo Royal Palace" (Sir where is the Royal Palace Hotel.) He pointed left and said "Sinistra." I thanked him and was on my way to a street called Via Sinistra. Drove about 30 more minutes and could not find Via Sinistra. Asked another gentlemen "Dove Sinistra" and he looked at me strangely and pointed left. I am getting closer I thought to myself. After asking two more people which way Sinistra was and getting the same answer I finally decided to break out my Italian/American Phrase book to learn that sinistra means left. So I spent about 3 hours asking Italians which way is left. I finally did find my hotel and had a wonderful time. Later my grasp of Italian was so good that I had a job calling Bingo at an American and Italian club. B two, B DOO-eh I could say with confidence.
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