New Leaf Nominations for June 2019 • Into the Labyrinth: The Quest

[Bookpossum]

But equally you could say there were two historical mysteries (The Daughter of Time and Alias Grace), two Classics (Edwin Drood and The Scarlet Pimpernel), one thriller (A Delicate Truth), three sort of SF (The Left Hand of Darkness, The House on the Strand, Never Let Me Go) and one non-fiction (The Great Halifax Explosion). Personally I don't think of the du Maurier as SF, nor the Ishiguro, but others may do. Oh, and one Fantasy with the upcoming The Graveyard Book.

However we categorise the books that have won, the big thing about themes is that we have choice each month, rather than being stuck in a genre which some people may like very much and others dislike.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Well, I was counting The Graveyard Book in the 9 months of winners even though we haven't read it yet. The Great Halifax Explosion would be going back 10 months.

Sure, I understand what you are saying. I'm just trying to add some perspective that maybe others can't see.

There are numerous ways to parse the data. I would actually add more to the classics category. I'm just sharing my own opinion of how I see the books. The Mystery of Edwin Drood may be a classic, but it's still a mystery. When people don't frequent and/or enjoy certain categories, they also don't differentiate with fine lines like a fan or more seasoned reader of the genre might. For example, SF/Fantasy is pretty much the same to me. So that's why I said in my opinion the way that I view the books is 5 in Mystery/Crime/Thriller and 4 in SF/Fantasy.

[gmw]

It's funny how perspective varies. Yeah, I can see how you come up with 4 SF/Fantasy but of those there is only one I would reliably recommend as truly fitting in the genre: The Left Hand of Darkness is recognisably SF to most SF readers. Never Let Me Go? Most SF fans aren't going to get it. The House on the Strand, nope, not a book for SF and fantasy fans. The Graveyard Book is borderline; sure, it's obviously fantasy (technically true of all fiction), but not in the sense that many fantasy fans might expect; it doesn't feel entirely like children's fiction to me but is generally categorised that way, and it is the same sort of fantasy as a children's book - the sort of story that gets called fairytale rather than fantasy, the difference being mostly of expectation.

It's this sort of mismatch of expectation that leads to problems with a genre based selection. I really liked Never Let Me Go, and I'd have to agree that it was technically SF, but it never felt like SF when I was reading it. To me, calling it SF would be misleading.

So the theme system disconnects us from our preconceived ideas of genre. And I like it for that, although the very lack of boundaries can be a problem too. But it's very much a first world problem, and not one to lose too much sleep over.

[Bookpossum]

Definitely a first world problem!

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

However, my opinion is that the genres of the monthly winners don't reflect the variety of the nominations. I would group the last 9 months into 2 buckets. 5 in the mystery/crime/thriller category and 4 in the SF/fantasy category.

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

But equally you could say there were two historical mysteries (The Daughter of Time and Alias Grace), two Classics (Edwin Drood and The Scarlet Pimpernel), one thriller (A Delicate Truth), three sort of SF (The Left Hand of Darkness, The House on the Strand, Never Let Me Go) and one non-fiction (The Great Halifax Explosion). Personally I don't think of the du Maurier as SF, nor the Ishiguro, but others may do. Oh, and one Fantasy with the upcoming The Graveyard Book.

I'd never classify The Scarlet Pimpernel as a mystery, nor would I classify The House on the Strand as SF.

I'd say the only mystery has been The Daughter of Time, and even that is not a typical mystery. I reluctantly have to include A Delicate Truth as a thriller.

The only real SF has been The Left Hand of Darkness, and I suppose The Graveyard Book gets classified as fantasy, though I haven't read it yet.

To my mind, most of the choices have been classics (The Scarlet Pimpernel, Edwin Drood) or general literature (Never Let Me Go, The House on the Strand, Alias Grace).

Looking at the list overall, it seems that we've read a fair amount of old-ish books and ignored newer ones. Isn't there a chart or graph somewhere with a breakdown on publication dates, author gender, country, etc.? I can't find it.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Wow! What an interesting conversation. If you want to know what the general public thinks on these subjects, I always find it interesting to look at the top shelf labels in Goodreads on the book details page.

I’m completely surprised that multiple people don’t think that the book that actually has the word Mystery in its title is actually a mystery!

Scarlet Pimpernel isn’t a mystery. It’s a thriller (espionage) that happens to be a classic.

Time travel, characters who aren’t humans, worlds that aren’t ours equals Science Fiction/Fantasy for me.

Dazrin compiles states on publish date and countries, but I’m not sure where to find them.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Looking at the list overall, it seems that we've read a fair amount of old-ish books and ignored newer ones. Isn't there a chart or graph somewhere with a breakdown on publication dates, author gender, country, etc.? I can't find it.

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

Dazrin compiles states on publish date and countries, but I’m not sure where to find them.

I love Dazrin's stats!

Here's a link.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

Wow! What an interesting conversation. If you want to know what the general public thinks on these subjects, I always find it interesting to look at the top shelf labels in Goodreads on the book details page.

I’m completely surprised that multiple people don’t think that the book that actually has the word Mystery in its title is actually a mystery!

Scarlet Pimpernel isn’t a mystery. It’s a thriller (espionage) that happens to be a classic.

Time travel, characters who aren’t humans, worlds that aren’t ours equals Science Fiction/Fantasy for me.

Dazrin compiles states on publish date and countries, but I’m not sure where to find them.

My definition of a genre mystery is a story in which a protagonist solves a dilemma, usually a crime of some sort, and reestablishes the social order. That doesn't happen in Drood. It doesn't happen in Daughter of Time, either, but it's closer. Sure, you can broaden the definition of mystery, but in a sense every story is a mystery--just as every story is a fantasy.

I'd call Scarlet Pimpernel an adventure before I'd call it an espionage thriller.

I don't think that one otherworldly element automatically turns something in SF or fantasy. That would put every vampire/monster/ghost story in the category, along with most dystopian novels and fairy tales. (You specifically mentioned time travel--I'd say it was hallucinations in The House on the Strand.)

Such broad definitions don't seem to paint a realistic picture of the selections; we might as well just say fiction/nonfiction, and leave it at that.

[Bookworm_Girl]

But I do group all vampire, monster, ghost, witch, etc stories into science fiction / fantasy! Absolutely!

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by issybird

I love Dazrin's stats!

Here's a link.

Thanks!

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

But I do group all vampire, monster, ghost, witch, etc stories into science fiction / fantasy! Absolutely!

So you'd lump together Dracula, Cinderella, and 2001: A Space Odyssey as SF/F? I'm glad you're not classifying the books at my local library!

[CRussel]

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

But I do group all vampire, monster, ghost, witch, etc stories into science fiction / fantasy! Absolutely!

But then, where would you put Ben Aaronovich's Peter Grant books? To me, they're Police Procedurals. But with magic.

[Dazrin]

If you are going to have such a broad group as "science fiction and fantasy" then yes, I would lump all those together. That doesn't mean they don't fit other groups though or that I wouldn't classify them as something else first.

I think the sub-genres are more interesting and relevant. SFF is just a catch-all for anything that has magic or advanced technology or otherworldliness. It's a very broad but shallow description. (Covers a lot of things but doesn't have much meaning.) It's the sub-genres in SFF or the other genres that could cover the book that begin to have depth/meaning.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Originally Posted by CRussel

But then, where would you put Ben Aaronovich's Peter Grant books? To me, they're Police Procedurals. But with magic.

Science Fiction and Fantasy of course. Just like Harry Dresden.

[Bookworm_Girl]

Originally Posted by Catlady

So you'd lump together Dracula, Cinderella, and 2001: A Space Odyssey as SF/F? I'm glad you're not classifying the books at my local library!

Of course. These aren’t real life stories. But, you are missing the point. I never said I would categorize the items in a library this way.