Amazon Kindle and Sony Reader Locked Up: Why Your Books Are No Longer Yours - Page 11

nekokami · 03-27-2008, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

I am kind of oversensitive about oversimplifications

Well, ok. I offer this oversimplification merely as a shorthand convenience, acknowledging that reality is more complex than that, but suggesting that it captures an essential character of the situation.

Does that help?

Taylor514ce · 03-27-2008, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gudy

That one's easy. I work around crappy web design, site navigation, or file format decisions which make it unnecessarily hard for me to access the publicly available content I want to read. In other words, I use it for exactly the same things that people try to achieve when they remove the DRM from their e-books and/or format shift them to something more usable.

You're rather making my point for me, I think. But I'm done talking about Google, it's one of those issues where no one ever changes their mind.

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-27-2008, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sianon

There is an interesting case running here in Melbourne (Australia)... This raises issues not just in regard to the copyright violations inherent in the series being available.

Okay, back up: What "copyright violations inherent to the series being available" are we talking about?

moz · 03-27-2008, 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Okay, back up: What "copyright violations inherent to the series being available" are we talking about?

If the series has not been broadcast in Victoria, isn't (yet) out on DVD and the copyright owner doesn't permit redistribution, there's no lawful way for most people in Victoria to see it. Which seems to be the case. So of course a near majority of the population have immediately gone online to try to find it in order to see what the fuss is about.

Of course that is illegal, and just as with everything else on YouTube, no-one really cares about the illegality.

sianon · 03-27-2008, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve Jordan

Okay, back up: What "copyright violations inherent to the series being available" are we talking about?

Steve, the DVD's are not official releases of the series. They are episodes that have been recorded and distributed through the internet immediately after an episode has first gone to air, therefore a copyright breach.

Karen

gwynevans · 03-27-2008, 05:56 PM

Well, personally I'd say that AltaVista was the first good web search engine, but then Compaq tried to make it into a portal, which was it's undoing, leaving the field clear for Google...

Jadon · 03-27-2008, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

I'm done talking about Google, it's one of those issues where no one ever changes their mind.

The same can be said for copyright and DRM, but if people didn't endlessly rehash those topics a good third of the posting volume in these forums would evaporate. One could really wish people settled for silently thinking "what an idiot" and passed on keeping the circular talking-past-each-other arguments going round and round.

JSWolf · 03-27-2008, 11:18 PM

The problem with DRm is that your content is locked to either a specific device or ID. Now lets say you had a Kindle and it broke. It was out of warranty when it broke. Amazon might not (read this in another thread) not have a repair service. So you can't send it in to get it fixed. You then decide to purchase a 505 or a Gen3. Your Kindle content is then unable to be read on either device since it's locked with DRM. For the average person, this would be very true. I know you might be able to remove the DRM and convert it. But that's not the issue. Many people don't have a clue how to do this or that it is even possible. And even if they did, know it can be done, don't know how to do it. So the Kindle content that's not been read is now lost unless repurchased in another format.

if someone wants to purchase something as an eBook to read on the computer, DRM is going to maybe bite his/her ass. The question is, what format to get, and will that content be readable if that person ever gets a portable reading device. Also, if the computer is ever needing the OS reinstalled or you just get a new computer... is there a way to migrate the content without needing to put in a new PID or redownload content/reregister the computer? I don't see that happening except for MS Reader content. I think the key is tied to your passport info. It's overall a lose-lose situation unless you can crack the DRM.

Take a look at the MLB website. They changed DRM providers and all the content that people previously purchased is now useless. That's DRM for you. Also wen Mobipocker took down their DRM server, it meant that a lot of Mobipocket format eBooks were unavailable for sale until the server came back up.

My MS Reader for some unknown reason no longer reader LIT files that have DRM. I can download them fine But I have to remove the DRM in order to be able to read them and I did properly activate it.

Adobe Acrobat 8 bit a lot of people on the ass as far as DRM PDF goes. Amazon screwed a lot of people when they stopped allowing downloads of purchased eBook content. And Kindle owners take note of this. Amazon has screwed people over on eBooks in the past.

And there are a lot of people that will not purchase a reader until DRM goes away. So overall DRM is losing money for eBooks.

DaleDe · 03-28-2008, 12:46 AM

Reinstalling MS reader and reactivating will fix your problem with that one issue. The rest are problems.

Dale

Olympus · 03-28-2008, 06:28 AM

the good old days when Internet was covered by http://altavista.digital.comnow only used for http://babelfish.altavista.com

I do feel OLD when referring to my first experiences on the Internet back in 1995

Olympus · 03-28-2008, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nekokami

When you borrow a book from a friend, the friend has paid for the book. Quite possibly you are also paying for books and loaning them to your friend, as well, or providing some other compensatory value to your friend as part of your friendship. If I recall correctly, publishers estimate that each physical book gets read by 4-10 people. Presumably they take that into account in the price of the book and the compensation to the author, even if only tacitly. The problem with downloads is that circulation is several orders of magnitude higher than paper circulation is ever likely to be. This completely unbalances the model.

Perhaps that is the REAL reason why e-books aren't cheaper than p-books: publishers estimate that 40 people will get a pirated copy for each e-book sold?

Xenophon · 03-28-2008, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Olympus

the good old days when Internet was covered by http://altavista.digital.comnow only used for http://babelfish.altavista.com

I do feel OLD when referring to my first experiences on the Internet back in 1995

How do you think I feel when referring to my first experiences on the ARPAnet... back when it had three nodes?

OK, OK... so I was in grade school and was using the teletype in my Dad's home office to dial up to the U. of Utah computer that had an ARPAnet connection so I could connect to the computer at BB&N where my Uncle had written a program that was an arithmetic tutor... but still.

The "Internet" is a newcomer!

Xenophon

Steven Lyle Jordan · 03-28-2008, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The problem with DRm is that your content is locked to either a specific device or ID.

Jon, just for the record, how would you feel if DRM was based on a single number, like your SSN, say, that you entered into any and every device you owned, guaranteeing you could read your content on anything you owned and could transfer them around?

JSWolf · 03-28-2008, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaleDe

Reinstalling MS reader and reactivating will fix your problem with that one issue. The rest are problems.

Dale

It's just easier for me to immediately remove the DRM. That way I don't forget to do so.

TallMomof2 · 03-28-2008, 11:51 AM

*Whew* Life interferes with my internet time and I come back to umpteen more pages.

As long as the DRM doesn't prevent my content from complete portability on *my* personal devices that's acceptable. Still don't want any DRM, because all it does is keep honest people honest. Also, ebook prices need to be much, much lower. It's ridiculous to pay even 50% of the pbook price when all you get is a license, you can't legally lend the ebook to a friend. If ebooks were around the $2 level then you could buy your friend their own legitimate copy.

Back in the stone age when I was college, my study group would pass around the same pbook novel. One person would buy the latest SF or Fantsy book and we would take turns reading it in between our studies. Pbooks (paper not hard cover) were around $4 so by the time we all finished reading the book it cost us very little. If we were reading ebooks then legally each person would have to purchase their own license to read the ebook. The cost would've been too much and we would've probably either made illegal copies (just being honest) or gone without.

Very cheap DRMed ebooks that are supported on many if not all devices would work for me.

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03-27-2008, 05:56 PM	#156
gwynevans Wizzard Posts: 1,402 Karma: 2000000 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: UK Device: iPad 2, iPhone 6s, Kindle Voyage & Kindle PaperWhite	Well, personally I'd say that AltaVista was the first good web search engine, but then Compaq tried to make it into a portal, which was it's undoing, leaving the field clear for Google...

03-27-2008, 11:18 PM	#158
JSWolf Resident Curmudgeon Posts: 73,983 Karma: 128903378 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Roslindale, Massachusetts Device: Kobo Libra 2, Kobo Aura H2O, PRS-650, PRS-T1, nook STR, PW3	The problem with DRm is that your content is locked to either a specific device or ID. Now lets say you had a Kindle and it broke. It was out of warranty when it broke. Amazon might not (read this in another thread) not have a repair service. So you can't send it in to get it fixed. You then decide to purchase a 505 or a Gen3. Your Kindle content is then unable to be read on either device since it's locked with DRM. For the average person, this would be very true. I know you might be able to remove the DRM and convert it. But that's not the issue. Many people don't have a clue how to do this or that it is even possible. And even if they did, know it can be done, don't know how to do it. So the Kindle content that's not been read is now lost unless repurchased in another format. if someone wants to purchase something as an eBook to read on the computer, DRM is going to maybe bite his/her ass. The question is, what format to get, and will that content be readable if that person ever gets a portable reading device. Also, if the computer is ever needing the OS reinstalled or you just get a new computer... is there a way to migrate the content without needing to put in a new PID or redownload content/reregister the computer? I don't see that happening except for MS Reader content. I think the key is tied to your passport info. It's overall a lose-lose situation unless you can crack the DRM. Take a look at the MLB website. They changed DRM providers and all the content that people previously purchased is now useless. That's DRM for you. Also wen Mobipocker took down their DRM server, it meant that a lot of Mobipocket format eBooks were unavailable for sale until the server came back up. My MS Reader for some unknown reason no longer reader LIT files that have DRM. I can download them fine But I have to remove the DRM in order to be able to read them and I did properly activate it. Adobe Acrobat 8 bit a lot of people on the ass as far as DRM PDF goes. Amazon screwed a lot of people when they stopped allowing downloads of purchased eBook content. And Kindle owners take note of this. Amazon has screwed people over on eBooks in the past. And there are a lot of people that will not purchase a reader until DRM goes away. So overall DRM is losing money for eBooks.

03-28-2008, 12:46 AM	#159
DaleDe Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,470 Karma: 13095790 Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Grass Valley, CA Device: EB 1150, EZ Reader, Literati, iPad 2 & Air 2, iPhone 7	Reinstalling MS reader and reactivating will fix your problem with that one issue. The rest are problems. Dale

03-28-2008, 06:28 AM	#160
Olympus Connoisseur Posts: 72 Karma: 542 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Rocket & Bookeen CyGen 3	the good old days when Internet was covered by http://altavista.digital.comnow only used for http://babelfish.altavista.com I do feel OLD when referring to my first experiences on the Internet back in 1995

03-28-2008, 11:51 AM	#165
TallMomof2 Kindlephilia Posts: 2,017 Karma: 1139255 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Snowpacolypse 2010 Device: Too many to count	Whew Life interferes with my internet time and I come back to umpteen more pages. As long as the DRM doesn't prevent my content from complete portability on my personal devices that's acceptable. Still don't want any DRM, because all it does is keep honest people honest. Also, ebook prices need to be much, much lower. It's ridiculous to pay even 50% of the pbook price when all you get is a license, you can't legally lend the ebook to a friend. If ebooks were around the $2 level then you could buy your friend their own legitimate copy. Back in the stone age when I was college, my study group would pass around the same pbook novel. One person would buy the latest SF or Fantsy book and we would take turns reading it in between our studies. Pbooks (paper not hard cover) were around $4 so by the time we all finished reading the book it cost us very little. If we were reading ebooks then legally each person would have to purchase their own license to read the ebook. The cost would've been too much and we would've probably either made illegal copies (just being honest) or gone without. Very cheap DRMed ebooks that are supported on many if not all devices would work for me.

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