E Ink forecasts loss as ebook device demand falls

[charmian]

What's the difference between reflectance, reflective, and white reflectivity? (https://wiki.mobileread.com/wiki/E_Ink_display)

What makes more of a difference, the "reflective" stat or the white reflectivity stat?
In any case, it seems that Carta isn't that much of an improvement over Pearl in either. Some pages suggest that electrofluidic e-paper has a much higher reflectance than e-ink, but I don't know whether this is anywhere near a commercial application.

[eping]

Originally Posted by Cyberman tM

Then the next question would be "WHY" was it ignored?
Was it truly because the majority thought of it as worthless, or perhaps because it wasn't taken serious by the developers and implemented only halfway?

From what I've seen so far (a probably quite limited POV), most readers have rather good hardware, but the software looks as if made by amateurs.
It works well enough, true, but there rarely is the feeling of cutting edge technology, or even well thought-out implementation.

Quite right!
Before iPad, there're already quite a lot tablets and notebook with touch screen, developed by SONY, Casio, Fujitsu, with excellent hardware, but they are all ignored, so they ever thought there's no market of such things.

Now again most ereaders have good hardware but with poor software and bad design!

The decisive factor is software not hardware, it's proved again and again.

[eping]

Originally Posted by AlbertaCowboy

Several of us have pre-ordered the EARL. (See thread https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=213065 )

Looks like it would meet most of your needs.
It's not available for sale yet, however you can preorder one, and when it's ready, they will send it to you. I backed the project aout this time last year, and I'm hoping it's ready for hunting season.

Thank you very much for the information, I'm just reading it.
I think 3" or 4" would be better to carry.

Now everyday I had to look for a dark place under sunshine to see my phone. so many times I can see nothing!
Everyday I just need these info,
Weather forecast
Simple text news
Currency Rates
Dictionary
Flights
Map&GPS like View Ranger(not Google Map)
All these can be shown properly on mono eink screen.
I don't need color or useless motion effect,
I just need clear information and fast speed.
Can they?
20 years ago they(except map) can be got from old Beeper.

I often see people on beach with an ereader instead of tablet, so they often take an ereader on vacation.
If they read on beach, they would also look up weather and book flight.
If the ereader can do these, they would not put more devices in their heavy luggage.
So I can say they never heed this, so they never develop for tourists
and backpackers.
They ignore the essential advantage of eink screen, outdoor & under sunshine!

[AnemicOak]

Originally Posted by eping

Thank you very much for the information, I'm just reading it.
I think 3" or 4" would be better to carry.

There are some eInk screened smartphones or smartphones with eInk secondary screens cropping up on the market. Can't say for sure how well they work or anything.

[MikeB1972]

Originally Posted by Tarana

For exactly these reasons, the eink devices will drop off the face of the earth in 5 years. Those of us who adore our ereaders for their simplicity and ease of reading have become the niche market now. The general type of people buying ereaders, that I see locally, not only take care of their devices (thus not breaking them often), but also use stuff until it dies. Lots of you are still using Sony's that were bought more than 5 years ago. I'm sure there are plenty of others who will use their Kindles, Nooks and other devices until they die. Then they will go to replace them and ereaders will be history. Remember, MBAs are running the show and a flat market means failure in their greedy brains.

Yes, they will all go away, in exactly the same way that it is now impossible to buy an MP3 player since phones now double as, err, hang on, wait

[mbovenka]

Originally Posted by Barty

Eink has a reflectance of something like 40%. Paper has reflectance of 80-100+%. DPI for paperwhite is around 200 vs 300 or 600 laser printer. When eink looks as good as the output I get from my $100 laser printer, they can stop improving.

This. My Aura HD is getting there in the DPI department at 265 dpi, 300 dpi EInk screens exist (2400x1650 9.7" Pearl) and EInk claims 'Greater than 300 dpi' for their new Carta tech, although I haven't seen any screens yet to back that up. Now all that's needed is better contrast...

[soulfuldog]

Originally Posted by Tarana

For exactly these reasons, the eink devices will drop off the face of the earth in 5 years. Those of us who adore our ereaders for their simplicity and ease of reading have become the niche market now.

Can't see it. Sure development will slow up, there won't be the continual new & improved models every year and you ereader might end up being a little more expensive to buy, but there's no way Amazon for example won't continue to sell an ereader at cost price while they continue to make money from ebook sales. Even if more and more just use tablets, why would they need to stop selling an ereader to those who wanted them?

Originally Posted by MikeB1972

Yes, they will all go away, in exactly the same way that it is now impossible to buy an MP3 player since phones now double as, err, hang on, wait

Yep, just like cameras too?

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by soulfuldog

Yep, just like cameras too?

And clocks, of course.

[AlbertaCowboy]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

And clocks, of course.

And cheap solar powered calculators.

[eschwartz]

Clocks specifically, because it was part of the original "proof" that ereaders are dying, ironically enough.

[chromedome]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

That sums it up...

I'm glad I still have a couple of eInk readers and will definitely be taking one with me when I travel since I might spend some of my time reading outside.

It's the outside thing where they are most useful and why it would be a pity to see the technology fade into oblivion, unless there is something to replace it then, for me, tablets would be a retrograde step. In-fact I'd go back to paper.

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

As for eInk I find that for the most part I prefer my "old" Kindle Touch over my "new" Aura HD. Issues with Aura HD are what actually got me to try a tablet again.

I didn't and wouldn't bother with a larger than 6" reader unless the form factor was such that it is no larger than current 6" models. However, I prefer the bezel being present to allow for comfortable holding. I think the problem with many of the modern e-ink e-readers is that the manufacturers have tried to emulate the touch capabilities of tablets to the detriment of usability. I've no problem with touch and really like having it present. BUT, I want page turn buttons, positioned by my right or left and left thumbs (or maybe on the back where my fingers can reach. In-fact I think that they are fundamental to an e-reading device. I'm not saying to remove the page turns from the touch aspect, just give me the choice.

In general I like the design of Kobo's new smaller 6" Aura, but as I mentioned
before I think the manufacturers of these devices are missing a few tricks: solar receptive case technology, removable (phone Type) batteries, Page turn buttons a "STOP READING - IT's TIME TO GO" alarm! I like my Kobo Glo very much, but wish it used Amazon's firmware. I think Kobo's firmware is too clunky and the shelf management is abysmal. Yet my old Kindle Keyboard is much better at this aspect (but by no means perfect) Why is it that simple library management functionality is so poor on e-readers? This is surely not a function of the screen display technology but more to do with supporting hardware and firmware. If tablets can manage this successfully then, it seems to me, there's really no reason for e-readers to be any different.

At the moment I don't like the fact that when my Kobo Glo's battery dies I have to throw it away. (I know many e-readers can be broken apart and aftermarket solutions retro-fitted, but that isn't for everyone) In these so called Green and Eco conscious days shouldn't we be making devices with in-built longevity? I have a solar powered scientific a calculator from the 1980's and it still works perfectly today, I use it regularly. E-readers should surely be devices that replace p-books, and remain usable over many years. After all e-readers are often the new storefronts for the book vendors; I would have thought that it was in their interest to make the device as appealing and long-lasting as possible designed for the purpose of obtaining managing and reading books.

I believe that if the manufacturers refined the screens a bit more and improved usability a bit to make them more useful and less clunky and concentrated around the issues of actually reading and managing ones collection of reading material, making it absolutely as easy as possible, then e-ink readers will have a much longer future. Unfortunately, although I believe tablets to be MUCH inferior devices for the purpose of reading printed fiction (my main reading matter) I suspect they might take over for a while. But like lcd calculators, e-ink readers will probably remain available.

Once again though. I do not read on my tablet or phone, unless I don't have my reader with me, because the moment it goes dah di dah - I just have to stop reading and check that e-mail / text / forum reply - whatever. When I read I put those devices on silent. Pick up my Glo and start reading WITHOUT interruption - like a p-book.

Regards,

Greg

[crossi]

I bought a Fire HD a couple years after I bought my Kindle. I really hate using it even for web surfing. It's too heavy for me to be comfortable carrying it around and for reading. The touch screen and small screen size is inferior to my big screen computer and mouse for web surfing and I prefer movies on my big screen TV. The Fire for me is only for emergency web access somewhere a real computer is not available. Doesn't come up very often. So I really hope eink doesn't go away since I use my kindle constantly.

Isn't there anyone else who hates using tablets? Any tablet any size?

[arcadesdude]

I saw a great video about this topic by goodereader on youtube but I'll link it at the end of this post but I wanted to give my opinion first.

In 2007, I bought a Sony Reader PRS-505/SC (silver color) updated with the customizer firmware from 2010. I bought the book light (Great Point Light 3x2032 battery sucker) which worked but was bad on glare and hard to read at night. I've been using this combo for 7 years now just fine.

After seeing a friends Kindle in 2012'ish I saw how much better the contrast was and decided I wanted an upgrade...which I got this year (2014) and love my new PaperWhite 2. The clear day reading is perfect and the fact that it has a in built frontlight which is super clear at night makes it very easy to read. The only thing that would get me to upgrade in the future would be color and faster refresh times or some other technology like oled or something else which acts similar to epaper's readability and battery life.

Here's the video which sums up pretty much everything everybody in this thread has said plus more.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDxv_9y2LAo

[faithbw]

Originally Posted by chromedome

I have a tablet and an ultra modern up-to-date powerful quad core smartphone. I have the Kindle and Kobo apps on both too, and read books on neither.

The e-ink of my Kobo Glo is just so much more pleasurable to read on than the LCD and Amoled screens of tablets and phones. I haven't found a tablet yet that allows me to read comfortably on the beach or in the park at lunchtime in broad daylight.

Like another poster here, I have a Kobo Glo and it's technology is good enough. I don't feel compelled to update to the Aura, although I, might update to an e-reader that has a few subtle improvements that make sense to me. One of those, is a replaceable battery. Perhaps, a solar receptive case that will charge my device for me while it sits on the desk. How, about that combined with the design of the current Kobo Aura and a slightly whiter screen with a bit more contrast. I think e-ink and associated devices have a way to go yet.

I'm not sure I'm bothered about colour, I read my magazines on my tablet because that's what it's suited to. I don't want an always connected device for reading books on, because I'd keep flipping to e-mails and web-pages and forums like this. The nice thing about a dedicated reading device like the current e-ink products are that they give me that little bit of technological isolation required to let me relax and enjoy.

Funny thing is, I know quite a few people now that at one point or another felt compelled to tell me how great there new tablet is/was and that their old e-reader is now ancient history. A few months later, a number of them have re-purchased an e-reader when the prospect of a week or two's break in the sunshine with a tablet didn't seem all that appealing and, strangely, neither did a bag full of p-books.

YMMV as they say.

Greg

While it's great for you that you love e-ink readers, you are part of what is becoming a minority. For now, the Kindle is still the more popular e-reader but what are people buying when they want to replace their Kindle?

However, according to the data, about 8% of ebook readers intend to purchase an iPad, versus about 3% who intend to purchase a Kindle e-reader.

When other dedicated e-reading devices and tablets are taken into account, the disparity grows. About a third of ebook readers intend to buy a tablet versus about 5% who intend to purchase a Kindle or Nook e-reader, the two most popular BPOP -0.03% devices on the market.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jeremygr...s-on-the-rise/

So, yes, people who own e-ink readers may love to read on them but that doesn't mean that people are buying e-ink readers in droves (and this is the problem for E Ink). It doesn't matter if you and many people on this forum like to read on e-ink readers. The problem is that the number of people buying e-ink readers is small and the number of people who are buying other e-reading devices (like tablets) is growing. I think it's because people don't want to have one dedicated reading device to carry with them if their smartphones or tablets do the same thing in a good enough fashion. It doesn't mean that smartphones and tablets are the best devices for reading (although I think that debatable). It just means those devices do that task well enough and they're convenient.

[cfrizz]

Those of you who love your einks have at it, but the flimsy excuses that you give for not using anything else are kind of lame.

Last I heard you can put any tablet or phone into airplane mode thereby silencing the phone, or notifications that come through, and tablets and phones come in different sizes and weights for just about anyone.

Don't blame the machine for your lack of discipline. It's amazing how many people just forget that machines are here to serve us at our convenience, NOT the other way around.

We all managed to survive just fine without all of it before it came along. My phone stays in airplane mode all the time unless I am traveling or turn on wifi a couple times a month to check for updates.

No one is putting a gun to your head to drop everything right now to answer your phone or check emails.