Typical On the Fencer

[tsgreer]

Originally Posted by Nate the great

Your eyes didn't deceive you. Your description is almost perfect. I know it's hard to believe, but made that shape on purpose.

I love my Kindle, but it is pretty "out there" in terms of shape. The Kindle is better appreciated when you actually see and hold one. Pictures rarely do it justice.

I get comments all the time from strangers who see it and they think it looks better in person. I was sitting in a comfy chair at Borders reading it (while my girlfriend was shopping for p-books), and lots of people were very interested in it. I was happy to stop reading and give a demo, but it started to get to get in the way of my reading. Mostly 40ish year-old women were excited by it and the idea of having so many books one easy-to-use device--I was pretty surprised.

Most computer geeks I know think it's ugly but regular people seem to really enjoy it. The opposite reactions of what I would have expected. Sorta like the VW bug I suppose. You either hate it or love it.

[radleyp]

In the numerous discussions of eink on this site, many contributors speak of multifunction devices and eink in the same breath. Eink, however, is a new technology and a pda screen is not its equivalent. What makes the Kindle (and the Sony, etc...) different is the screen which for the moment no pda has. Adding reader software to a pda does not make it a Kindle. If eink makes no difference to you, then stick with what you have, but do not think for a moment that what you experience on your pda is the same. I have read books on a pda and even a phone, but it is not the same as eink and unless pda's eventually adopt eink screens it never will be.

[NatCh]

One of my favorite things to do when folks mention PDAs to me in the context of reading, is to pull up a book on my Palm and a book on my Sony and hold them side by side and ask them which they'd rather read on.

Not a single one has said they'd rather read on the Palm -- not even jokingly. None of them has so much as hesitated even an instant over the question.

[radleyp]

I've had the same experience with my wife and daughter who would not consider reading on a pda/smartphone: my daughter has now announced that she will buy a Kindle.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by NatCh

One of my favorite things to do when folks mention PDAs to me in the context of reading, is to pull up a book on my Palm and a book on my Sony and hold them side by side and ask them which they'd rather read on.

Not a single one has said they'd rather read on the Palm -- not even jokingly. None of them has so much as hesitated even an instant over the question.

Agreed. I wouldn't mind the larger screen and better reading experience of the Sony.

But if I did the same comparison, then explained what I did on the PDA aside from reading books that I couldn't do on the Sony, and what I paid for my PDA vs what a Sony costs, I think the equation would change dramatically.

It's all a matter of what you need to do with your device, and what you are willing to carry around. I happily carry a cell phone and a PDA. I won't carry a cell phone, PDA, and reader. And none of the combo devices that are cell phone and PDA work for me -- too much of what I do requires a bigger screen than any such device has.
______
Dennis

[NatCh]

In everything there is a trade-off.

As marvelous as e-ink is, it's not the solution to everything, for the reasons you so well describe, and probably others neither of us has thought about.

For example, I still carry a Palm: I can't keep my checkbook on my Reader.

[radleyp]

Isn't the iphone screen as big (or very nearly as big) as the Zodiac's? I carry a smartphone (a MotoQ, on which I used to read books) and the Kindle. I have a lot of software on the Q (Quicken, Zagat, PocketStars, games) and it works fine. I input very little on the phone - I am a touch typist and only a full keyboard is for me truly satisfactory, so I input almost all on my desktop. A device the size of a Kindle would never, in any case, work as a phone. Dennis, I think the matter of price for the eink reader is exaggerated: figure I'll keep it for two years (that's how long I've had my Q), that's less than $20 a month, I spend that and more going to the movies once with my wife. Yes, the pda does more, but I don't see that that changes much: a Kindle is a reading device, period. I do not need or want pim functions in a device that size, as pim functions for me must fit in my pocket.

[Taylor514ce]

As a frequent business traveler, I always have my laptop and blackberry with me. That's a given. What isn't a given is which 3 or 4 books to pack with me for the trip. Or do I gamble on finding something worthwhile in the airport book stores? For me, a dedicated reader makes sense.

While I think the eInk technology will eventually work its way into some strange and wonderful new devices, I think the ebook dedicated reader device is the perfect first use of the technology. What isn't perfect is the price of the devices, and the crippling effects of DRM, competing formats, and vested interests of the publishing industry.

I'll be getting the Sony Reader, as soon as either 1) the price drops or 2) competition at the retail level has an effect. With Target, Best Buy, Circuit City, Borders, plus online retailers and Sony themselves all selling the device, eventually someone will start offering discounts. Of course, today with nearly every one of them sold out (including Sony themselves), I'm not holding my breath.

Then of course, I will have not only the pure joy only dedicated gadget geeks can feel, I'll also have the ironic joy of griping about publishers, talking about the device here, and trolling the web for content.

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

Dennis,

I work in IT/Software, and everything I need to do professionally I can do with a combination of a laptop and a Blackberry. When I read for pleasure, I definitely don't want to do it on a computer or a blackberry (though I'm trying out MobiPocket on the blackberry).

I had laptop and Blackberry. The Blackbarry I had was one of the slim-line units intended to be combo cell-phone and push email device. Mobi probably would have run on it, but there's that too small screen size again, as well as the issue of getting ebooks onto it. With the PDA, I use a card reader to drop ebook files directly on an SD card in the appropriate directory, and off I go.

I certainly am not interested in reading on the laptop. Too big and too heavy to just carry around with me when I'm out and about.

That's why I'm interested in an eInk reader. My laptop is one of those huge, workstation-class 17" monsters, and the blackberry is just a bit too tiny. When I'm in a plane, hotel room, or airport lounge, I want a book-sized device to read a book, that's it.

I have similar feelings, but I also include the cases where I don't have the laptop along. If I'm traveling, I probably do, but I'm unlikely to pull it out in an airport lounge, or on a plane or train, unless I am doing something that can only be done on it.

I see two clear camps: those who want a dedicated reader, and those who want a multi-function device. I just can't see a multi-function device ever having a form factor that would make it attractive as a reader. I don't want to hold a book-sized thing up to the side of my head to make a phone call.

Depends on what the multiple functions are.

What do I do? Let's see:

Place/receive phone calls. I have a tiny low-end Nokia cell phone I use for that. That's all it does, and all I want it to do. It lives clipped to my belt.

Everything else in on the PDA, which lives in a shoulder bag or briefcase, depending, not a pocket. Having PDAs fail the Drop Test(tm) cured me of pockets as places to keep them.

PIM functions -- Address book, calendar, reminders, to-dos. Well, that's what a Palm device was designed to do.

Read ebooks and refer to electronic references. Easily doable with the appropriate software, though not as easy due to incompatible formats and the need to maintain multiple viewers as it ought to be. I have a library in my pocket.

Watch videos. Doable with the appropriate software, which is this case is a free, open source product called TCPMP. I know people ripping full length movies from DVDs for playback on their handheld with TCPMP, though I haven't bothered.

View photos. Doable with software. JPGs in my case, but other image formats are possible.

Listen to MP3s. Doable with software, as well as Ogg Vorbis files in addition to MP3s.

Play games. Lots of them out there, including arcade style, puzzle games and any other variety. I have an SDL port of Nethack on the PDA.

Surf the web. Doable in a pinch with a wifi card, but I vastly prefer laptop or desktop. Too many sites don't have mobile friendly faces, and Palm browsers lag what's available elsewhere.

Read/reply to email. I can but don't. It can damn well wait till I'm on desktop or laptop.

Read/edit Word documents and Excel spreadsheets. Doable with the appropriate software. (Mostly Excel, here.)

Write documents. Doable with the appropriate software and a folding keyboard.

Write code. Doable with the appropriate editor and a folding keyboard. Depending upon the code, some of it I can even build and run on the handheld, though in practice, I don't.

Which of the above can I do on a dedicated reader? The third.

If I could get a device in a reader form factor, that supported color, and did all the things I do with my PDA, I'd probably switch to it. There isn't one at this point, though if ASUS actually makes the reported future eee model with a 9" screen, I'll be looking real close.
______
Dennis

[Taylor514ce]

Place/receive phone calls: blackberry.
Read/reply to email: laptop/blackberry
PIM functions -- Address book, calendar, reminders, to-dos: laptop Outlook/Blackberry.
Watch videos: TV. Laptop.
View photos: not on my list.
Listen to MP3s: not on my list, though I have an iPod nano I typically pack along with my Bose QC3 headphones.
Play games: not on my list.
Surf the web: laptop
Write/Edit PC files: PC/laptop
Write code: PC/laptop

In short, all my computing needs are handled by my computer. My communication needs are handled by my communication device. I have a music player for music, though I don't use it much. I'd like a reader device for reading.

I realize this leaves me with:

1. Computer
2. Phone/Emailer
3. Music Player
4. ebook Reader

So be it.

Slightly back on topic to "which one should I buy", it looks like BooksOnBoard's price for the CyBook Gen 3 is higher than Bookeen's own retail price.

[Taylor514ce]

Originally Posted by NatCh

You've got me thinking now ... what about a book-sized thing that used a bluetooth earpiece and had a built in "garage" for storing and charging it? That might solve the problem.

Of course it would have to be an earpiece that was easy to pull out of the device and stick in your ear for quick answering ....

Maybe it could double as a stylus!

Yes... a universal computing device with earbud, virtual screen (eyeglasses) and subvocal input. I want the MetaVerse from Neal Stephenson's "Snow Crash", and I want to be that Lagos guy. (No, not really.)

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by radleyp

Isn't the iphone screen as big (or very nearly as big) as the Zodiac's?

I'm not sure, but doesn't matter. Unless/until Apple releases the SDK for the iPhone, the software won't be there for most of what I do. And even after they release it, it will take a while for certified apps to appear, and who knows whether anyone will port an ebook viewer to the iPhone? (Mobipocket would be the obvious first choice, but do they have the developer resources?)

The iPhone is pretty, with elegant design, a gorgeous display, and a superb UI. What the iPhone does, it does very well. What it doesn't do makes it unsuitable for me.

I carry a smartphone (a MotoQ, on which I used to read books) and the Kindle. I have a lot of software on the Q (Quicken, Zagat, PocketStars, games) and it works fine. I input very little on the phone - I am a touch typist and only a full keyboard is for me truly satisfactory, so I input almost all on my desktop.

I don't do a lot of input on the PDA, but I have a folding keyboard for those instances when I need to. I don't like thumbboards, the on-screen virtual keyboard is too slow, and while I'm passable at Grafitti, a keyboard is a lot faster and easier for any extended input.

A device the size of a Kindle would never, in any case, work as a phone.

Agreed. I have a tiny Nokia that works just fine.

Dennis, I think the matter of price for the eink reader is exaggerated: figure I'll keep it for two years (that's how long I've had my Q), that's less than $20 a month, I spend that and more going to the movies once with my wife. Yes, the pda does more, but I don't see that that changes much: a Kindle is a reading device, period. I do not need or want pim functions in a device that size, as pim functions for me must fit in my pocket.

Price is only one factor, and eInk isn't the point.

The question becomes: how many different devices am I willing to carry? I'll carry a cell phone and a PDA. I won't carry a cell phone, PDA, and reader. I won't carry a combo cell-phone/PDA because I haven't seen a converged device that works for me. I want a larger screen than any cell phone will have.

eInk is lovely, but one of my requirements is color, and that's a couple of years off for eInk at best. It's in development in the lab, but I don't expect to see it in a device soon.

I'd like a device that could normally replace my laptop as well as my PDA, with something in a smaller, lighter form factor. It doesn't have to fit in a pocket. My PDA is a bit big to carry in a pocket, and lives in a shoulder bag or a briefcase. It needs to have PIM functions, display ebooks, play MP3s and videos, display photos, surf the web, handle email and newsgroups, do word processing, spreadsheets, and text editing, and play games. It needs a color screen large enough to do such things comfortably. It needs a keyboard, but an external BT keyboard or the like is fine. It needs Wifi and BT.

It does not need to run Windows - I can handle Linux, thank you. It does not need to run MS Office. Open Office works for me.

It does need to be flash based, and use SD cards for external storage.

The closest I've seen to what I'd like thus far is the ASUS eee, but I'd like a larger screen. If ASUS made something like the eee with a larger screen as a tablet, minus the keyboard, that you could use a BT keyboard with, we'd start getting into the range of what I'm looking for.
______
Dennis

[DMcCunney]

Originally Posted by Taylor514ce

I see two clear camps: those who want a dedicated reader, and those who want a multi-function device. I just can't see a multi-function device ever having a form factor that would make it attractive as a reader. I don't want to hold a book-sized thing up to the side of my head to make a phone call.

You are including a cell-phone as part of a multi-function device. I don't. I want that separate. All I need my phone to do is place and receive calls, and be able to share the address book with my other devices. My does that, and I'm happy.

When I factor cell-phone out, the equation changes, and the solution becomes much different.
______
Dennis

[Taylor514ce]

It's interesting. My phone MUST have email functionality. Email is the primary way my clients communicate with me, and I can't lug around an open, connected laptop 24/7 just to read and answer email. Occasionally I'll need to make a phone call in response to an email, and the Blackberry simply excels at that. I'm trying to use it as an ebook reader, too, with mixed feelings. It does great for GPS mapping, IM, alarm clock, and general memo pad functions, keeping certain informational tidbits close at hand.

All other computing (Office apps, coding, Captivate video/audio recording, web, and to some extent music playback) is just that: computing, and I do it with a computer.

For me, the ideal dedicated device isn't the phone, its the ebook reader. A phone/PDA doesn't quite work for me, and neither does a backlit computer screen.

[radleyp]

Dennis, the Kindle, which came as a surprise over the holidays, changed things for me in a way I did not expect. I had been carrying my MotoQ only, reading on it as well (I even read two full-length novels), but when I began reading on the Kindle, I quickly realized that I would never again read anything of even moderate length on a phone or pda (I had previously been using a T/X) and this for two reasons: there was no longer this annoying backlight and the screen was now a respectable size, so that I could actually judge paragraphing. I just finished an essay by John Stuart Mill who writes in often paragraph-long sentences with paragraphs that can sometimes stretch to more than a page: it is impossible to get a feel for such text on any pda (the Zodiac included) that I know. SO, now I carry the MotoQ (on which I sometimes read newspaper headlines) and the Kindle. And my phone must be email-capable. As it turns out, color on the reader is less important to me. So you and I will continue our search for the ideal device.