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Old 09-19-2010, 11:08 AM   #1
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A Heads up re B&H Photo Video

This is not intended to be a B&H bashing post, but to highlight how their business practices can financially disadvantage non US customers.

After several good reports on this forum, (although many commenting they were a strange company). As they ship worldwide, I pre ordered a PRS-650 from them using my Visa card and giving them the correct registered card billing address for delivery.

Sadly, it turned out to be a big and expensive mistake.

Instead of first verifying my Visa card they immediately charged the full sum to the card and it was approved by Visa. They subsequently decided that as the card was British they were not prepared to ship to the registered card billing address in Spain, I’ve no idea why.
They cancelled my order and refunded the charge.

No problem then? . . . . . . . Only if you have a $Dollar Visa card.

If like me your card is another currency, this is what happens;
First the $ sum is converted by your card provider to your currency at their rate and a charge for this service added.
The refund is treated the same way except at a ten point less advantageous exchange rate and again plus charges. The charges in both cases being the major item.

The result of this - a cost to me of c.$25.00 for nothing!

Some 10% of the goods value, just for B&H to decide they did not want to supply me after all.
Quite why they did not do that before actually charging the card and confirming the order I do not understand. Every other company I have bought from in the US has placed a provisional charge to verify funds and card details before finally billing. As is the norm here in Europe, resulting in no unnecessary charges to either party..

I did contact them expressing my disappointment of their actions, their reply;-. . . .

. . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .Tough!! it’s your problem not ours.


Good customer service ?

I think not.

Last edited by columbus; 09-21-2010 at 10:50 AM. Reason: Typo changed B&N to B&H & highlighted salient point
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Old 09-19-2010, 02:06 PM   #2
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Have you explained the situation to your credit card company? Maybe they will refund the foreign transaction fees?

B&H being a Jewish owned company will soon be closed for Succos. Ordering from them now will incur a long delay.
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Old 09-20-2010, 03:35 AM   #3
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I was tempted to buy from them...Not anymore. Thanks for the feedback and sorry for what happened, even if it's "only" 25$.
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:11 AM   #4
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I would definitely call them again and ask to talk to their manager.
Since it is their fault (isn't it? there is no rule that billing and posting addresses must be the same?), they should refund the loss.
I bought both of my sony readers from them and both times they where excellent.

P.S.
I have come across this inconvenience of ordering from abroad, then cancelling the order myself. You have to pay the charge twice to your credit card company
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:25 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by columbus View Post
Some 10% of the goods value, just for B&N to decide they did not want to supply me after all.
Quite why they did not do that before actually charging the card and confirming the order I do not understand. Every other company I have bought from in the US has placed a provisional charge to verify funds and card details before finally billing. As is the norm here in Europe, resulting in no unnecessary charges to either party.

First, I suggest you edit your text to replace B&N with B&H. Although B&N is often the recipient of complaints, it is unfair to name them here when your complaint is with B&H.

Second, I have never said anything in reply to posts that favorably speak of B&H, after all, everyone has his or her own experience. But my personal experience with B&H is such that I would rather pay a 20% higher price for the same item -- or not buy the item at all -- than to buy it from B&H. Your customer service response is a typical B&H response. Its attitude has been for quite some time that they have enough business and don't need mine.

When I worked in New York City I would occasionally go into their store. You could do cartwheels and handsprings and still be ignored.

I don't know if J&R ship internationally, but if they do, they would be a much better outfit to buy from.
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Old 09-20-2010, 09:48 AM   #6
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http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/Hel...esPolicies.jsp

It looks like they will only ship to your billing address (or an address listed with your credit card company). Your order may have also run into some VAT/taxation issues, or equally likely, gotten flagged as a possible fraud.

They are correct in that the discrepancies in exchange rates are not B&H's fault, nor did they profit from it. It's your credit card issuer's fault, and they are the ones who are charging you.

That said, if I were an international buyer with a billing address in the UK and a shipping address in Spain, I wouldn't be too surprised to run into all sorts of snags when purchasing goods from outside the EU.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:17 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kali Yuga View Post
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/find/Hel...esPolicies.jsp

It looks like they will only ship to your billing address (or an address listed with your credit card company). Your order may have also run into some VAT/taxation issues, or equally likely, gotten flagged as a possible fraud.

They are correct in that the discrepancies in exchange rates are not B&H's fault, nor did they profit from it. It's your credit card issuer's fault, and they are the ones who are charging you.

That said, if I were an international buyer with a billing address in the UK and a shipping address in Spain, I wouldn't be too surprised to run into all sorts of snags when purchasing goods from outside the EU.

Read my post! It states quite clearly that the Shipping and Billing addresses are one and the same Spanish address.

The fact that the card is from a British bank has nothing to do with it. Britain is part of the European economic union which allows free movement both physical and financial of it's citizens. Your comment is like saying that if your card is from a New York bank you can not use it if you live in California - or is that the case in the US?

The charges are not discrepancies in exchange rates they are charges for currency exchange because B&H placed a confirmed charge on my account before deciding they would not supply - most definitely their fault - they could have confirmed the card by making a provisional charge then not confirming it when they were not satisfied. Again B&H's fault - Not mine!!!

Either way it is $25 for zilch!!
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:24 AM   #8
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Have you explained the situation to your credit card company? Maybe they will refund the foreign transaction fees?

B&H being a Jewish owned company will soon be closed for Succos. Ordering from them now will incur a long delay.
Yes, I have raised it with my card provider and await their response.

But it is not their fault either. It is B&H business practices causing it.

I think B&H charge your card in full & then (according to their t&c) take a week to refund you so they have free use of your cash.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:30 AM   #9
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I would definitely call them again and ask to talk to their manager.
Since it is their fault (isn't it? there is no rule that billing and posting addresses must be the same?), they should refund the loss.
I bought both of my sony readers from them and both times they where excellent.

P.S.
I have come across this inconvenience of ordering from abroad, then cancelling the order myself. You have to pay the charge twice to your credit card company
I did re contact them before posting here to give them a chance to correct it, that was when I got the * Tough! Not our problem* response.

I don't think anybody will send goods of any value these days to an address different to the card billing, even within the same country.
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Old 09-20-2010, 05:11 PM   #10
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Yes, I have raised it with my card provider and await their response.

But it is not their fault either. It is B&H business practices causing it.

I think B&H charge your card in full & then (according to their t&c) take a week to refund you so they have free use of your cash.
Let's hope for a favorable response.

B&H is not permitted to bill you for goods before shipping. Since it's a "preorder" there was no possible way for them to ship the item. You are correct it is their fault. They possibly violated Federal Postal regulations.

I am confused on how it came to be $25. Did the USD weaken considerably against the Sterling? Or was their additional transaction fees imposed by your bank? Of course, if the USD strengthened you would have been ahead.
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Old 09-20-2010, 10:40 PM   #11
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I'd register a complaint with Visa, and have both transactions cancelled. Buyer protection is one of their selling features.
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Old 09-21-2010, 01:53 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by columbus View Post
This is not intended to be a B&H bashing post, but to highlight how their business practices can financially disadvantage non US customers.

After several good reports on this forum, (although many commenting they were a strange company). As they ship worldwide, I pre ordered a PRS-650 from them using my Visa card and giving them the correct registered card billing address for delivery.

Sadly, it turned out to be a big and expensive mistake.

Instead of first verifying my Visa card they immediately charged the full sum to the card and it was approved by Visa. They subsequently decided that as the card was British they were not prepared to ship to the registered card billing address in Spain, I’ve no idea why.
They cancelled my order and refunded the charge.

No problem then? . . . . . . . Only if you have a $Dollar Visa card.

If like me your card is another currency, this is what happens;
First the $ sum is converted by your card provider to your currency at their rate and a charge for this service added.
The refund is treated the same way except at a ten point less advantageous exchange rate and again plus charges. The charges in both cases being the major item.

The result of this - a cost to me of c.$25.00 for nothing!

Some 10% of the goods value, just for B&H to decide they did not want to supply me after all.
Quite why they did not do that before actually charging the card and confirming the order I do not understand. Every other company I have bought from in the US has placed a provisional charge to verify funds and card details before finally billing. As is the norm here in Europe, resulting in no unnecessary charges to either party..

I did contact them expressing my disappointment of their actions, their reply;-. . . .

. . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . . .Tough!! it’s your problem not ours.


Good customer service ?

I think not.
I can only off you contact Henry Posner, he goes by HenryP on most forums. He handles the customer service for photo gear so he might be able to help resolve or explain any issues you might have. His public email is:

henryp@bhphoto.com

This is a public email so no problems posting it here. Like mentioned above B&H has their religious closure happening or happening soon so best to email soon as possible.

Henry is a FANTASTIC guy and very sincere in making sure things get fixed when confusion happens. I have spent $1000s with B&H and friends have spend 10x-20x that with them and, sure things go wrong but B&H is one of the most ethical companies I have ever dealt with and I am as fussy as can be in retailers and mfg's standing behind their products and services.

But it all happens with communication and maybe this is a case where the buyer expectations were nor realistic and the sales folks did not ensure the understanding was there should issues happen later. But remember it's not the seller's responsibility to make sure the buyer knows how the process works when buying online/mail order...

Fact, CC companies charge a fee for currency exchanges...unless the seller accepts payment in the buyer's currency AND there is still usually a "cross boarder" fee as well...having had merchant accounts for a few decades I see buyers with this lack of understanding every now and then...it is their problem not mine but still a seller will suck it up and try to help in the understanding but it's not the seller's fault...

But your situation is a different one...and remember you asked the seller to ship to an address not associated with your card, in fact in a different country. This is a HUGE red flag for fraud and the seller loses 100% in such cases so, especially for new customers, they won't ship to an address which differs from the card's address. Nothing is unusual there and I would do the same thing.

International transactions are tricky when things go right...and a nightmare when things go even slightly wrong...good luck and give Henry a email, he will answer back...be sure and include a phone number because if need be he will call.

You do not become one of the top sellers of electronic gear online and in their B&M shops by screwing your customers...I would trust them with $10k cash for a lense, of course I would have to actually have $10k in cash, hell, I would have to have $10 cash...hehehe...

But Henry will do what he can to either fix it or put you in touch with whoever handles that area of sales so you can work it out if you want to find a solution, if you would rather bitch, which always feels good!! hehehe, then do that...
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:14 AM   #13
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Sheeee!!! $25 just to be told they would not ship to you, & at your registered card billing address - outrageous!

For sure I'm not going to be doing any business with them if this is how they treat their customers.

Nor I suspect will a lot of people.
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Old 09-21-2010, 10:47 AM   #14
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snip.
But your situation is a different one...and remember you asked the seller to ship to an address not associated with your card, in fact in a different country.
You are somebody else who has either not read the original post! - Or are you just trying to cloud the issue?

In my post I state quite clearly that the registered billing address given for the card was the same as delivery address. Also repeated in post 7.
(I'll edit my first post to highlight this)


The fact that card providers charge fees for currency exchange is not the issue here. It is B&H charging the card in full then deciding if they will supply or not, instead of making a token or provisional charge to verify the card details before making the full charge or cancelling the order.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brecklundin View Post
I can only off you contact Henry Posner, he goes by HenryP on most forums. He handles the customer service for photo gear so he might be able to help resolve or explain any issues you might have. His public email is:

henryp@bhphoto.com

This is a public email so no problems posting it here. Like mentioned above B&H has their religious closure happening or happening soon so best to email soon as possible.
I went back to B&H politely explaining my feelings before posting this thread. it was their *Tough, not our problem* that prompted me to post here.

I will mail henry as you suggest, but I shall not hold my breath for a reply form a public email address.

And no I am not just looking to Bitch as you put it I am $25 out of pocket and offended by this through no fault of my own. (or the card provider).
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Old 09-21-2010, 11:02 AM   #15
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Let's hope for a favorable response.

B&H is not permitted to bill you for goods before shipping. Since it's a "preorder" there was no possible way for them to ship the item. You are correct it is their fault. They possibly violated Federal Postal regulations.

I am confused on how it came to be $25. Did the USD weaken considerably against the Sterling? Or was their additional transaction fees imposed by your bank? Of course, if the USD strengthened you would have been ahead.
It became c.$25 mainly due to the charges for exchanging one currency to another then back. The actual loss due to currency fluctuation is a small part of the total.
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