Grimdark Recommendations

[Critteranne]

Originally Posted by Little.Egret

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/...occult-history

"While I expect Ash would be called Grimdark if it was written by a man, it does not fit for other reasons beyond the author being female. True grimdark glorifies violence, is unreflectively, unrepentantly sexist and should at every opportunity revel in the idea that all possible decisions inevitably must produce misery, degradation and corruption1. Ash fails on most of those, even regarding violence. Ash is a mercenary because that’s what she knows how to do . . ."

I like his reviews. But... I don't think grimdark is necessarily sexist. While there are a lot of guys writing grimdark, that doesn't mean the books are sexist. Also, some of the recent authors getting a lot of praise are Anna Spark Smith and Anna Stephens, and they have scored high in votes for grimdark content according to an ongoing vote on Mark Lawrence's blog.

The term "grimdark" started out as a pejorative, and then fans reclaimed it. However, it's hard to tell what is grimdark and what is not. Even the writers and fans don't agree. On top of that, many fans complain that people publish standard military fantasy novels and now call them "grimdark" even when they are not.

It's a weird term that is hard to define. But so is hopepunk. Let alone noblebright. (I'm not making those terms up!)

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by Critteranne

It's a weird term that is hard to define. But so is hopepunk. Let alone noblebright. (I'm not making those terms up!)

That's a good point. The terms seem to be tied to evoked emotions, which are not going to be the same for everyone.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Critteranne

The term "grimdark" started out as a pejorative, and then fans reclaimed it..

It's a weird term that is hard to define. But so is hopepunk. Let alone noblebright. (I'm not making those terms up!)

I think all these subgenres of subgenres and the endless parade of -punks is dumb.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I think all these subgenres of subgenres and the endless parade of -punks is dumb.

I agree.

[hildea]

I like this kind of subgenres and subsubgenres. Sure, the definitions won't be very clear cut, but they work fine as rough indicators. Thanks for the hopepunk link Critteranne, I'll check out those books!

I usually avoid grimdark, but you might try "Grunts" by Mary Gentle.
"The usual last battle of Good against Evil is about to begin. Orc Captain Ashnak and his war-band know exactly what they can expect. The forces of Light are outnumbered, full of headstrong heroes devoid of tactics - but the Light's still going to win. Orcs - the sword fodder in the front line - will die by the thousands.

Life's a bitch."

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

The real problem with the Warhammer books is their price. $12 a book?

Games Workshop is annoyingly greedy when it comes to pricing and new editions for their games, so it's no surprise that they are greedy when pricing their books as well.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by hildea

Games Workshop is annoyingly greedy when it comes to pricing and new editions for their games, so it's no surprise that they are greedy when pricing their books as well.

There's greed and then there's harming your own business. They cost a third again as much as your average D&D novel $12 vs. $8). And they cost more than the French editions of the same books on Amazon US (which run at $8).

I have no idea how many books they sell, but I have bought zero, though I have several in paper (where they cost about the same as other books).

[JSWolf]

These other sub genres are also silly and the terms used should just go away.

[ZodWallop]

Of course if you comb through the history of this forum you will see a thread I started looking for Sword and Sorcery recs. See, because my subgenres are valid. But ones I'm not interested in are not

[DrNefario]

I recently read Snakewood by Adrian Selby, which I liked a lot. I think it would count as grimdark. It has that brutality and amorality, and you don't really sympathise with most of the people on either side, while also being able to understand how they got there. It's about a group of mercenaries in a world where soldiers make heavy use of "plant" - performance-enhancing drugs and poisons - so your druids ("drudha") are among most important people on your team.

It seems there are two more books in the same world, which I'll have to look into.

[Critteranne]

Originally Posted by DrNefario

I recently read Snakewood by Adrian Selby, which I liked a lot. I think it would count as grimdark. It has that brutality and amorality, and you don't really sympathise with most of the people on either side, while also being able to understand how they got there. It's about a group of mercenaries in a world where soldiers make heavy use of "plant" - performance-enhancing drugs and poisons - so your druids ("drudha") are among most important people on your team.

It seems there are two more books in the same world, which I'll have to look into.

I knew that one sounded familiar, so I did a search. Snakewood ended up on Mark Lawrence's crowd-sourced ranking of the nine "grimdarkest" books. It scored 4.04.

I don't mind unsympathetic characters (now and then) as long as we can understand why they act like that.

[Gandulf]

Originally Posted by Critteranne

Michael R. Fletcher (Beyond Redemption )was voted as the "grimdarkest" book[/URL])

Just finished it, it may be the "grimdarkest" book but it has some really funny parts as well. The part when Stehlen "explains" what happened in the temple had me in tears.

[MGlitch]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Of course if you comb through the history of this forum you will see a thread I started looking for Sword and Sorcery recs. See, because my subgenres are valid. But ones I'm not interested in are not

There are only two genres. Fiction and Non Fiction. And books from the latter may find themselves being sorted to the former and vice versa as knowledge is gained.

[Little.Egret]

Originally Posted by MGlitch

There are only two genres. Fiction and Non Fiction. And books from the latter may find themselves being sorted to the former and vice versa as knowledge is gained.

See faction

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Non-fiction_novel

[JSWolf]

Grimdark, hopepunk and a lot of these other silly genres are meaningless and really do need to go away.

There's only one genre that should matter to us all.

Genre: I like this book

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

There's only one genre that should matter to us all.

Genre: I like this book

If someone enjoyed The Hobbit, but didn't enjoy Starship Troopers, do you think they would be more or less likely to enjoy Sword of Shannara?

Genres have their place.