Grimdark Recommendations

[Critteranne]

Any grimdark fans out there? What are your grimdark recommendations?

There is a Grimdark Magazine with reviews and stories!

Some prominent grimdark authors include:

Mark Lawrence (for example, the Broken Empire series)
Joe Abercrombie (for example, the First Law series)
Richard K. Morgan (The Steel Remains)
Michael R. Fletcher (Beyond Redemption was voted as the "grimdarkest" book)
Anna Smith Spark (for example, the Empires of Dust series)
Scott Oden (for example, A Gathering of Ravens)
Glen Cook (for example, Chronicles of the Black Company)
Kameron Hurley (for example, The Mirror Empire)
Brian McClellan (for example, the Powder Mage series)
R. Scott Bakker (for example, the Prince of Nothing series)
Anna Stephens (for example, Godblind)
Daniel Polansky (for example, the Low Town series)

Some authors who may or may not be grimdark include R.F. Kuang, Robin Hobb, Andrzej Sapkowski, C.S. Friedman, Steven Erikson, and Stephen R. Donaldson. Authors who influenced grimdark include Robert E. Howard and Fritz Leiber.

[ZodWallop]

Howard and Leiber I'd recommend. But that's no help for you.

I think 'grimdark' is a stupid word, so I haven't done tons of homework on it. But isn't George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire ground zero for what is now called grimdark?

I have The Steel Remains from Morgan. But I haven't yet read it.

[John F]

Googling the defintion:

noun
noun: grimdark

a genre of fiction, especially fantasy fiction, characterized by disturbing, violent, or bleak subject matter and a dystopian setting.
"I was super into grimdark when I was in college"

adjective
adjective: grimdark

(of fiction, especially fantasy fiction) characterized by disturbing, violent, or bleak subject matter and a dystopian setting.
"there were two series that were too grimdark for me"

Can't say as I seek it out, but I believe I read it from time to time.

I always thought of "dystopian" as a bleak futuristic setting. But it seems like grimdark wouldn't include fantasy type books (like Steel Remains (I believe this is dark fantasy (I haven't read it, but it is on my TBR list)), ...

If grimdark is dark fantasy or dark science fiction, then for young adult, how about The Monstrumologist series by Rick Yancey?

[Critteranne]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

…

I think 'grimdark' is a stupid word, so I haven't done tons of homework on it. But isn't George R.R. Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire ground zero for what is now called grimdark?

It is a rather silly word. It came from Warhammer (“In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war.”). And from what I’ve heard, it was originally used jokingly. Fans and writers can’t decide on whether it’s a real genre or just a weird label.

GRRM is one of the pioneers. But while it’s not as famous, Glen Cook’s first Black Company book came out several years earlier.

I think the term grimdark has staying power because it’s short and because terms like “dark fantasy” have other meanings. And it probably works because the label can be mocked — even by fans and by its own writers. (Also, the genre or label or whatever it is can be applied to both SF and fantasy.)

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I have The Steel Remains from Morgan. But I haven't yet read it.

I know that feeling…

[JSWolf]

Grimdark: A silly word that needs to go away forever.

[Critteranne]

Originally Posted by John F

Googling the defintion:


Can't say as I seek it out, but I believe I read it from time to time.

I always thought of "dystopian" as a bleak futuristic setting. But it seems like grimdark wouldn't include fantasy type books (like Steel Remains (I believe this is dark fantasy (I haven't read it, but it is on my TBR list)), ...

Many of the best-known grimdark stories are fantasy. In fantasy, it’s often used to refer to “anti-Tolkien” stories. They are often cynical and nihilistic as well.

I’ve seen some people refer to “dystopian fantasies” (although it usually refers to science fictional settings). There is also one famous grimdark fantasy that actually takes place in a post-apocalyptic future. Just to confuse things.

"Dark fantasy" would probably work better, but it's used to refer to fantasy with elements of horror. And now, it's being used to refer to some urban fantasy stories. And "nihilistic fantasy" would be too hard to spell.

Originally Posted by John F

If grimdark is dark fantasy or dark science fiction, then for young adult, how about The Monstrumologist series by Rick Yancey?

It sounds like it could be, but that seems to depend on tone as well.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Critteranne

It is a rather silly word. It came from Warhammer (“In the grim darkness of the far future there is only war.”). And from what I’ve heard, it was originally used jokingly. Fans and writers can’t decide on whether it’s a real genre or just a weird label.

Speaking of that, there are the Warhammer books. There's the Trollslayer books (though I don't think of them as particularly grim or dark).

But I remember starting the 5 book Malus Darkblade series about a rebellious dark elf. This isn't some wimpy Drizzt dark elf. Darkblade is evil. To be honest, I stopped reading the first book because it was just too dark for my tastes.

The real problem with the Warhammer books is their price. $12 a book?

[David Munch]

Warhammer as such is not considered grim dark; Warhammer 40k is.

And IMHO, what GRRM writes is somewhat dark, but it is still happy fairy tales compared to the grim dark of Warhammer 40k..

[John F]

Originally Posted by John F

I always thought of "dystopian" as a bleak futuristic setting. ...

And googling the defintion of dystopia:

: an imagined world or society in which people lead wretched, dehumanized, fearful lives

So I guess dark fantasy would qualify.

[John F]

Originally Posted by Critteranne

...


It sounds like it could be, but that seems to depend on tone as well.

The tone is very dark/bleak. It is also seems like horror (fighting monsters). But I'm not sure if it is a dystopian setting (other then the bleakness of the characters and the monsters).*




*Please note that I read this quite a while ago so I may be off on some details.

[Critteranne]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

Grimdark: A silly word that needs to go away forever.

I know a reader who says he likes the term because it's a short word that tells him, "You will hate this book."

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by David Munch

Warhammer as such is not considered grim dark; Warhammer 40k is.

I'd say it has more to do with the book in question than the setting. Those Malus Darkblade books I mentioned definitely qualify. And there are several others, though not all.

[Critteranne]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

Speaking of that, there are the Warhammer books. There's the Trollslayer books (though I don't think of them as particularly grim or dark).

But I remember starting the 5 book Malus Darkblade series about a rebellious dark elf. This isn't some wimpy Drizzt dark elf. Darkblade is evil. To be honest, I stopped reading the first book because it was just too dark for my tastes.

I've heard the Malus Darkblade books are pretty dark. And the Witchhunter books as well.

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

The real problem with the Warhammer books is their price. $12 a book?

Tell me about it.

Originally Posted by David Munch

Warhammer as such is not considered grim dark; Warhammer 40k is.

And IMHO, what GRRM writes is somewhat dark, but it is still happy fairy tales compared to the grim dark of Warhammer 40k..

From the little bit I've read, Warhammer 40k wins the grimdark war. IIRC the brains of "criminals" are used in their equivalent of robots -- and they think the brains have no memories of their past selves but aren't certain.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Critteranne

I've heard the Malus Darkblade books are pretty dark. And the Witchhunter books as well.

My main issue with the Witchhunter books is that they want to be something like old Hammer movies or Solomon Kane, but I had a harder time taking them seriously when they were invoking the Warhammer gods. Call it a failure of my imagination.

I need a wild-eyed, lunatic puritan carrying a glowing cross for that type of tale to work.

[Little.Egret]

https://jamesdavisnicoll.com/review/...occult-history

"While I expect Ash would be called Grimdark if it was written by a man, it does not fit for other reasons beyond the author being female. True grimdark glorifies violence, is unreflectively, unrepentantly sexist and should at every opportunity revel in the idea that all possible decisions inevitably must produce misery, degradation and corruption1. Ash fails on most of those, even regarding violence. Ash is a mercenary because that’s what she knows how to do . . ."