UK e-book prices to rise from 1st January 2015

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Quexos

That is a poor example first cause this is the tobacco industry, not exactly sweet little benevolent choir boys... so their being happy or sad about any news is not exactly the best moral standard of judgement...

Sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand you. I don't see the relevance of the tobacco industry to this. This law change affects downloads of books, music, software, etc. It doesn't affect physical goods like cigarettes; they are already taxed at the buyer's VAT rate.

Also you are talking about companies that make huge amounts of money and I'm talking about the rights of simple individuals which are what matters as these tax increases are going to come out of simple folks' pockets as always.

This change in EU law was brought in precisely because large multinational companies like Amazon have been able to avoid paying taxes by basing themselves in the EU country with the lowest VAT rate (Luxumbourg).

As I say, this is not automatically a "tax increase". Whether it's an increase or a decrease depends on the location of the buyer and the seller.

[Quexos]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sorry, I'm afraid I don't understand you. I don't see the relevance of the tobacco industry to this. This law change affects downloads of books, music, software, etc. It doesn't affect physical goods like cigarettes; they are already taxed at the buyer's VAT rate.

You're the one mentioning the tobacco industry when you mentioned Rizla (the makers of rolled papers for cigarettes). Or were you talking about some other Rizla that is related to books and which I don't know about?

Originally Posted by HarryT

As I say, this is not automatically a "tax increase". Whether it's an increase or a decrease depends on the location of the buyer and the seller.

Which makes it a geographical segregation. One is not guilty of being black or white or fat or thin or any other prejudice like that and in the same way one should not be segregated because of where one lives as if living here means you have more rights and living there means you have less. Especially within a union of countries like the EU.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by Quexos

You're the one mentioning the tobacco industry when you mentioned Rizla (the makers rolled papers for cigarettes). Or were you talking about some other Rizla that is related to books and which I don't know about?

I'm talking about the MR member called "Rizla" who is constantly posting about the injustice of Amazon being allowed to get away with charging low rates of VAT by basing themselves in Luxembourg .

Which makes it a geographical segregation. One is not guilty of being black or white or fat or thin or any other prejudice like that and in the same way one should not be segregated because of where one lives as if living here means you have more rights and living there means you have less. Especially within a union of countries like the EU.

You do have the same "rights" throughout the EU, but that doesn't mean that you pay the same amount of tax. Each country is free (within certain limits) to set its own taxation policy and rates. That's a matter for national governments, and the people they represent.

[Quexos]

Originally Posted by HarryT

I'm talking about the MR member called "Rizla" who is constantly posting about the injustice of Amazon being allowed to get away with charging low rates of VAT by basing themselves in Luxembourg .

Oh, well in that case, my mistake in misunderstanding what you said, LOL sorry about that

But other than that, my point still stands!

EDIT: Really that person is jealous and complaining about low VAT rates which benefit those buying there? Hmm not my type of guy I guess.

[tompe]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Not at all, old boy, but I do happen to think that tax evasion is a particularly egregious offence, because it's stealing from everyone.

I agree. That is why copyright is bad since it steal away things from the common which hurt everybody.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

This change in EU law was brought in precisely because large multinational companies like Amazon have been able to avoid paying taxes by basing themselves in the EU country with the lowest VAT rate (Luxumbourg).

...and in the process it's looking like it will drive out of the EU market a good chunk of smaller competitors, like authors and bands selling direct from their websites, forcing them to go through aggregators like... Amazon.

Big players always have the resources to adapt and it is the small guys that get steamrollered.

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by Quexos

Also you are talking about companies that make huge amounts of money and I'm talking about the rights of simple individuals which are what matters as these tax increases are going to come out of simple folks' pockets as always.

Didn't people realise that would be where the money would come from when they first started demanding Amazon and the like pay more taxes? It's not often I agree with Harry, but he's right about this. People should be jumping for joy at the prospect of paying more for their ebooks now they have got what they wanted.

[Canuck_in_Japan]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

One thing to do is to get a VPN and set it to someplace with lower VAT.

You don't need a VPN. I live in Japan and buy books from Amazon.com all the time. All you need is a US address (no one says it has to be yours).

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by mr ploppy

Pretending to be based in another country is classed as tax avoidance, which is legal.

Are you sure? Seems like fraud to me, if you're doing it for purposes of financial gain. Actually being based in another country is fine, but not claiming to be, when you're really not, AFAIK.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

...and in the process it's looking like it will drive out of the EU market a good chunk of smaller competitors, like authors and bands selling direct from their websites, forcing them to go through aggregators like... Amazon.

Sorry, why will it force them out?

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Sorry, why will it force them out?

Because their infrastructure isn't set up for the complexities demanded by the new VAT regime and their European sales won't generate enough cash to pay for the changes. Having to keep track of the incoming IP address to present a different price depending on location isn't a trivial addition to a small web site. The alternative is to force shoppers to register and sign in or to start the checkout process, neither of which is the best customer experience.

Amazon, for one, as long been doing dynamic pricing so they are already wired to show different prices to different customers so they won't be measurably impacted. All the new regime will do to them is raise consumer prices. And if it depresses their ebook sales, well, they sell pbooks too.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

Because their infrastructure isn't set up for the complexities demanded by the new VAT regime and their European sales won't generate enough cash to pay for the changes. Having to keep track of the incoming IP address to present a different price depending on location isn't a trivial addition to a small web site.

Companies don't have to concern themselves with VAT unless they reach the "VAT threshold" for sales within the EU, which is quite a large amount of money. Eg, a company doesn't have to register for VAT for sales into the UK unless it sells more than £70,000 (over $100,000) worth of goods in the UK each year. Small companies shouldn't, therefore, be affected.

[fjtorres]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Companies don't have to concern themselves with VAT unless they reach the "VAT threshold" for sales within the EU, which is quite a large amount of money. Eg, a company doesn't have to register for VAT for sales into the UK unless it sells more than £70,000 (over $100,000) worth of goods in the UK each year. Small companies shouldn't, therefore, be affected.

That has apparently changed. See here:

http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/diane...-e-book-store/

As Duane points out via a quote from a Huffington Post article on the matter, the new regulation—and its removal of the minimum threshold at which UK businesses need to worry about VAT—is going to hit many UK small businesses particularly hard. Especially vulnerable are the small startups being run by stay-at-home parents as a way to contribute to the family pocketbook. Not only does the vast amount of recordkeeping required pose an incredible expense to small businesses that might be only pulling down a few quid a month in their early stages, the record-keeping requirements for purchases made while traveling are a self-contradictory mess.

Duane writes that she and her husband Peter Morwood are going to have to take a long hard look at the regulations and figure out if they should simply stop selling into the UK and EU countries, or whether they can even continue running their e-book store at all.

And here:

http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/25/eus...-for-startups/

[Rizla]

Originally Posted by HarryT

Yes, welcomed. People like Rizla have been going on for years about how unjust it is that Amazon sell from Luxembourg and charge only 3% VAT as a result. I'm sure he's jumping up and down for joy at the prospect of them being "brought into line" and having to pay the same amount of VAT as UK-based companies.

Not at all. While I do think large corporations should contribute to society via taxes, including Amazon, I am uncomfortable with this law because it also targets small online retailers with low margins and who are less able to deal with the new red tape. In effect, I think small online retailers should be exempt at least partially from this new ruling. This would encourage genuine entrepreneurship from individuals, rather than encourage world-eating behemoths.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by fjtorres

That has apparently changed. See here:

http://www.teleread.com/ebooks/diane...-e-book-store/

And here:

http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/25/eus...-for-startups/

I hadn't heard that before. If it's true then it is, as you say, an onerous burden on small business.