New Leaf July 2018 Discussion • Dandelion Wine by Ray Bradbury

[BenG]

In several areas the lightning bugs are gone because of spraying for mosquitos, at least in SC.

Also in 1971 the Apollo 15 astronauts named a crater on the moon after this book, Dandelion Crater.

[Greg Anos]

Originally Posted by gmw

There are fix-ups and then there are fix-ups. As the Wikipedia article notes, some are obviously short-story "cycles" rather than novels, such as Asimov's I, Robot. Others - not mentioned in Wikipedia but relevant to my point - like Asimov's Foundation come together to form a natural and consistent chronology; it's still arguable whether it forms a distinct novel, as such, but at least everything fits together.

Dandelion Wine was obviously "fixed-up" to try and turn it into novel form - and for my tastes that was a mistake. I'd rather have read it as a collection of separate but related stories rather than being tantalised with links that don't hold up for a novel. That is: trying to pretend there is a novel where there isn't just gives the reader the wrong idea and sets them up for disappointment. Keep it as obviously distinct stories and the reader doesn't go looking for links that are not there.

Even in fix-ups, there are different styles. I, Robot used the framing style. In science fiction, there is the "Future History" style, of which the Foundation stories are an example of. (Atypical, perhaps, about the failing and not the rising of the future.), which is a interconnecting series of stories against a common background.

Then there is the multi-viewpoint chain of stories, often about an organization, following its historic flow over time. This style is not limited to short stories made into novels, it can be a series of novels. Think of the Stainless Steel Rat stories. Or Fritz Leiber's Change Wind stories.

The simplest is simply a string of short stories about a single character, or a group of characters, strung together. Lots of those sorts.

Bradbury seemed to create a different form, the mosaic novel. Look at The Martian Chronicles. Virtually nothing interconnected in character or organization, no particular flow of time, just a massive cluster of vignettes placed together to create prismatic whole. A very different form from the above. . .

Just my 2 cents worth. . .

[Bookpossum]

Originally Posted by Bookworm_Girl

Since the book was so nostalgic, I wondered what shared memories of childhood were evoked for everyone. For example, we used to chase lightning bugs and capture them in jars for our bedrooms at night. I wish we had them here in the Western US. Also, we didn't view dandelions as weeds. They were fun to pick and make beautiful flower chains. I would not have guessed that someone would have experienced the grass that doesn't need cutting sales pitch.

Lightning bugs sound interesting. We don't have those. Probably our favourite creature to collect, show off to friends and then release, was cicadas. I found one in the garden a while ago - see photo - but usually we just see their discarded shells and of course hear them. The most desirable one to find was called a Black Prince, being completely black and very handsome. On a really hot day the air throbs with their call. I'm not sure if they are the same in the US or not.

Another favourite was collecting tadpoles and growing them into frogs. I now feel very guilty when I think of those poor little frogs which would have to try to find some water, as we didn't have a pond - I just had them in a fish tank.

[BenG]

Lightning bugs sound interesting. We don't have those. Probably our favourite creature to collect, show off to friends and then release, was cicadas. I found one in the garden a while ago - see photo - but usually we just see their discarded shells and of course hear them. The most desirable one to find was called a Black Prince, being completely black and very handsome. On a really hot day the air throbs with their call. I'm not sure if they are the same in the US or not.

The sound of cicadas, or July flies as we called them, in the woods is the sound of summer to me.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Dngrsone

[...] My favorite parts were the suspenseful moments which put me in mind of Stephen King. [...]

I find it interesting that both of us thought of King while reading this book.

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

Even in fix-ups, there are different styles. [...]
Bradbury seemed to create a different form, the mosaic novel. Look at The Martian Chronicles. Virtually nothing interconnected in character or organization, no particular flow of time, just a massive cluster of vignettes placed together to create prismatic whole. A very different form from the above. . .

Just my 2 cents worth. . .

Worth way more than 2c RSE! An interesting observation. It's time I re-read The Martian Chronicles, I remember almost nothing of them except the fact of having read them.

[Bookworm_Girl]

The throbbing buzz of cicadas is definitely a distinct summer sound. I've never heard the term July flies. In the book, Tom talks about determining the temperature from the cicada buzz. Who knew there was some partial truth to this method? I couldn't find anything based on cicadas, but Dolbear's Law uses cricket chirps.
https://lifehacker.com/5817534/how-t...crickets-chirp

[Dngrsone]

I grew up with Cicadas... and tree frogs. Nothing sums up summer in Florida like those two sounds (okay, and rain... real rain, not this pathetic spitting we get occasionally out here in the land of fruits and nuts).

Lightning bugs weren't so prevalent in my neighborhood (probably for the aforementioned reason of mosquito spraying), though I did see them often on visits to family and camping trips.

When I brought my kids East to visit my mom in rural PA, the lightning bugs were an amazement for them, for sure.

[orlok]

I'm coming late to the party, but thought I'd post a quick review. I have mixed feelings about the book; on the one hand I loved the language and the imagery, on the other I thought it was a bit disjointed and without structure. I thought it would have worked better if all the stories were told from the perspective of the 12 year old Douglas, and got a little lost when the point of view wandered in seemingly random directions. That said, it was a wonderful set of interwoven stories told by a master wordsmith. Some of the stories worked better than others, some were very intriguing (I personally enjoyed the serial killer thread, and was quite satisfied with its denouement).

My favourite thing in the whole book? That the elderly, as seen through the eyes of the children, are living time machines.

[Luffy]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Well, Dandelion Wine was easier to get through than The Three Musketeers; I'll say that for it. But, like gmw, I prefer more structure and a plotted story, not a series of loosely connected episodes, especially when a lot of those episodes seemed repetitious and/or out-of-place.

I didn't like the Happiness Machine story--that felt like a heavy-handed episode of The Twilight Zone. I didn't like the Tarot Witch--again, cue the woo-woo music, except the story didn't actually go anywhere with all that buildup. The Elmira-Clara witchcraft story was okay, but it was one of the many stories that seemed shoehorned into the account of the boys' summer--I would have preferred the focus to stay on the boys, to see everything from their POV.

I didn't believe that those boys were twelve and ten; they seemed younger. The ten-year-old seemed to have more sense than his brother.

What kind of weird summer was it in that town, with old people dropping like flies and a serial killer wandering around without anybody taking significant precautions? The serial killer was, however, my favorite part of the book; the mounting suspense as foolishly headstrong Lavinia walks home was well done. This section reminded me of an Alfred Hitchcock Presents episode (do I watch too much TV?), but the outcome was just WRONG. Lavinia's the one who should've been killed, not the Lonely One--and, for goodness' sakes, shouldn't the Lonely One at least have been someone we'd already met rather than a cipher? (Leo the Happiness Machine guy? Bill the newspaperman?)

Frankly, that summer of 1928 did not seem like the kind of summer a kid would remember fondly--too much sadness and loss. Yet Bradbury went on and on and ON about the wonderfulness of it all, seeing it through some nostalgic haze that he undercut with so many questionable episodes.

Thanks for this assessment. Saved me some time.

[BenG]

Bradbury was a short story writer; he wrote over 600 of them.* His only novels that I can recall that weren't fix-ups were Fahrenheit 451, Something Wicked This Way Comes, The Halloween Tree, and the three Crumley mysteries.

*I've read well over 200 of them.

[Dazrin]

I finally was able to listen to this. I think the experience (at least the first time) was enhanced by listening to the audio book instead of reading it.

Originally Posted by orlok

My favourite thing in the whole book? That the elderly, as seen through the eyes of the children, are living time machines.

I think this was my favorite part as well. I love the idea in general and also0 the Colonel's reaction when he found out that they were calling him that.

I also loved the introduction with Doug "conducting" the wake-up of the town. Lovely imagery there.

I laughed through the "witch" scenes (I can't remember names there) and felt sorry for Tom that he had to participate, although the end of that wasn't satisfying.

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Dazrin

I finally was able to listen to this. I think the experience (at least the first time) was enhanced by listening to the audio book instead of reading it.

I think this was my favorite part as well. I love the idea in general and also0 the Colonel's reaction when he found out that they were calling him that.[...]

Is our seniority showing, do you think?

When I hit that scene, with the boys rushing to listen to the old man, I was reminded of The Simpsons episode with the lemon tree (I think). Milhouse shouts "Hey, an old man is talking!" - or something like that - and they all rush to sit down and pay attention. Hmm... make of that what you will.

[Bookpossum]

Yes, I loved the Colonel as well. It seems to me that there is a theme of memory running through the book - Bradbury's memories of his childhood and the town in which he was a boy, but also the memories of the Colonel, which died with him, and those of the other old people in the book, Helen Loomis, Mrs Bentley, and Great-Grandma. Great-Grandma telling Doug:

"I'm not really dying today. No person ever died that had a family."

Her immortality would be her descendants, but also of course their memories of her.

[Catlady]

The interest in old people and their memories is one of the things that felt false to me, given Doug's supposed age of 12. When I think back to my childhood, I was much more interested in my grandparents' stories of the past when I was significantly younger than that; by 12, and for the next few years, I wanted little to do with anyone who was ancient and old-fashioned--I wanted to be around people my age or a little older.

If it were a matter of one person, e.g., the colonel, who captured Doug's interest, fine, but there are far too many old people in a book that's ostensibly about Doug's summer. What does Doug do all summer besides hang out with old folks?

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

Yes, I loved the Colonel as well. It seems to me that there is a theme of memory running through the book [...]

One of the notes I added to my own review was: A book of memory, not reality.

Many of the earlier, more consistent, parts of the book were so idealised as, it seemed to me, to invite the reader to imagine it was and older person reviewing their childhood. (I think issybird made a similar observation earlier.) It's what makes the ideal of a kids respecting the stories of the older generation so attractive, despite its unreality. Kids don't, but older people do, and may try desperately to remember those things they heard as a child.

And that thought, it seems to me, makes the connection with...

Originally Posted by Catlady

The interest in old people and their memories is one of the things that felt false to me, given Doug's supposed age of 12. [...]

I completely agree. One of the reasons why The Simpsons episode went through my mind at the time I hit the scene with the colonel was that it had such a humorous unreality to it that the two could have been written by the same person.

You're right, kids of that age (approximately the age of the kids sitting down to listen to Abe Simpson) don't want to listen to old farts prattle on. Which is not to say they all miss it, some learn a lot by a sort of osmosis, but mostly they'll be grumbling all the while.

At the time of the colonel we had still managed to stay mostly with the boys, and I was still hoping for a consistent theme, and that theme, it seemed to me, might well be the unreality of the life we remember. Too much else came in to disturb that theme later, in my opinion, but it still remains the most pervasive feeling I am left with now, after this distance in time from reading it: it's an old man's memory of his childhood, so of course it is unreal.