[Kobo] Series and series_index issue

[codychan]

When I add series info into the books in Calibre Library, there will be series and series_index (or number).

The series column in Calibre Library becomes "SeriesName[1]"
After I send the books into my Kobo Forma, and info of the new sent books in Kobo device will be:

01 - title
SeriesName - 1
author

the title is renamed as "01 - title", and series info becomes "SeriesName - 1"

For a long time, I'll replug my device and use "Koboutilies->Update Metadata in Device Library" to update the metadata into the device, so the title in the device will be the same as the title in Calibre Library.

This works OK, but recently the titles of a lot(hundreds) of books in my device library keep becoming "01 - title", I have to select all the books in my device and repeat the "Koboutilies->Update Metadata in Device Library" step, and it always has hundreds of books been updated because of this step, recently I found "Preference->Metadata plugboards" and I set the source template for epub to "{title}", deleting the "series_index" part in it, it seems working so far, still checking if it is the solution which the title of the new sent books in device library will always be the same as the title in Calibre Library.

If it is, please let me know.

Another thing is, I don't know what the purpose of the series_index is, and is it able to disable the series_index completely, meaning do not show series_index in the series column in Calibre Library and do not show it in the device library?

[theducks]

Did you set up a plugboard to put the index into the Title field? That is not needed (wanted) for a Kobo that can do Series on its own

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by codychan

When I add series info into the books in Calibre Library, there will be series and series_index (or number).

The series column in Calibre Library becomes "SeriesName[1]"
After I send the books into my Kobo Forma, and info of the new sent books in Kobo device will be:

01 - title
SeriesName - 1
author

the title is renamed as "01 - title", and series info becomes "SeriesName - 1"

For a long time, I'll replug my device and use "Koboutilies->Update Metadata in Device Library" to update the metadata into the device, so the title in the device will be the same as the title in Calibre Library.

This works OK, but recently the titles of a lot(hundreds) of books in my device library keep becoming "01 - title", I have to select all the books in my device and repeat the "Koboutilies->Update Metadata in Device Library" step, and it always has hundreds of books been updated because of this step, recently I found "Preference->Metadata plugboards" and I set the source template for epub to "{title}", deleting the "series_index" part in it, it seems working so far, still checking if it is the solution which the title of the new sent books in device library will always be the same as the title in Calibre Library.

Any metadata plugboard is there because you created it. None come with calibre. Having one that adds the series info to the title is common practice for all the devices that don't support series info. As you no longer want to fiddle with the title when sending the book to the device, just remove the template. That way it won't be changed when you send a new book to the device.

If it is, please let me know.

Another thing is, I don't know what the purpose of the series_index is, and is it able to disable the series_index completely, meaning do not show series_index in the series column in Calibre Library and do not show it in the device library?

The series index is to show the order of the book within a series. Most people want to know this so they know what order to read the books in. There are very few series where this isn't important. You cannot hide the series index directly in calibre. The series column in the list always shows both. You could create a column that uses a template for the series name only and display that instead.

On the Kobo devices, the series name can be set without the series index. And Kobo does do this for a few books in the store. But, in all the cases I have looked at, that is probably an error in the metadata that the publisher supplies. All of the ones I can think of have the series index in the title (Something like "Some great title (the fifth book in the Amazing Series Series"), subtitle or fairly prominently in the description.

But, from calibre to Kobo, there is no way to not set the series index when setting the series info on the device. The driver has an option to turn of off setting the series info. The Kobo Utilities metadata update doesn't have to set the series info when used (but it doesn't have an option to clear it). Neither of these have options to only set the series name. And I don't see any point in not setting it, so I don't have a plan to do so.

And for the record, the KoboTouch driver, and hence the KoboTouchExtended driver, has an option to update the metadata on the device automatically when it is reconnected. This will mean you do not need to use the plugin manually to update the device with any changes in the library. It uses any plugboard that match the book format and device, just as send-to-device does. But, it does not have options to only update certain metadata like the plugin does.

[codychan]

Originally Posted by theducks

Did you set up a plugboard to put the index into the Title field? That is not needed (wanted) for a Kobo that can do Series on its own

No, I've been using Calibre for my Kobo for several years, this is the first time I touched plugboard in "[N]Preference->Metadata plugboards[/B]", I think the default setting has the "series_index".

And I DO NOT want the "series_index" in my Kobo library

[codychan]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Any metadata plugboard is there because you created it. None come with calibre. Having one that adds the series info to the title is common practice for all the devices that don't support series info. As you no longer want to fiddle with the title when sending the book to the device, just remove the template. That way it won't be changed when you send a new book to the device.

I've been using Calibre for my Kobo for several years, I think the default setting has the "series_index" or maybe I accidentally set it when I started to use Calibre before I knew what I was doing, but I never wanted "01 - title" from the first beginning. Anyway, since this is the solution, I got it now.

Originally Posted by davidfor

The series index is to show the order of the book within a series. Most people want to know this so they know what order to read the books in. There are very few series where this isn't important. You cannot hide the series index directly in calibre. The series column in the list always shows both. You could create a column that uses a template for the series name only and display that instead.

Thanks, it looks like the "series_index" is useful, I use this function sometimes but not the series_index directly, I just changed the title of all the books I need to read in order into "(1)title", "(2)title"... in my Calibre Library, since now I know "series_index" can do this, I'll keep it and use "series_index" for the order purpose .

Originally Posted by davidfor

On the Kobo devices, the series name can be set without the series index. And Kobo does do this for a few books in the store. But, in all the cases I have looked at, that is probably an error in the metadata that the publisher supplies. All of the ones I can think of have the series index in the title (Something like "Some great title (the fifth book in the Amazing Series Series"), subtitle or fairly prominently in the description.

But, from calibre to Kobo, there is no way to not set the series index when setting the series info on the device. The driver has an option to turn of off setting the series info. The Kobo Utilities metadata update doesn't have to set the series info when used (but it doesn't have an option to clear it). Neither of these have options to only set the series name. And I don't see any point in not setting it, so I don't have a plan to do so.

And for the record, the KoboTouch driver, and hence the KoboTouchExtended driver, has an option to update the metadata on the device automatically when it is reconnected. This will mean you do not need to use the plugin manually to update the device with any changes in the library. It uses any plugboard that match the book format and device, just as send-to-device does. But, it does not have options to only update certain metadata like the plugin does.

I already set "Automatic management" in "Preference->Sending books to device", but always update the metadata manually, I'll see if it works.

Thanks again for the explanation, it helps a lot.

UPDATE:
Actually the "Automatic management" is not that perfect, I plug my kobo forma, in one series A, I change a file title, add a comment in "Edit Metadata" window, change the series_index of multiple files, in series B, I change all the series index, change one title, unplug, series A got updated automatically, but series B is not synced, I replug and unplug again, then the metadata of series B is finally synced.

[theducks]

Originally Posted by codychan

No, I've been using Calibre for my Kobo for several years, this is the first time I touched plugboard in "[N]Preference->Metadata plugboards[/B]", I think the default setting has the "series_index".

And I DO NOT want the "series_index" in my Kobo library

There is no default setting(s) in the Plugboard. It is EMPTY (no device/templates present) on first install.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by codychan

I've been using Calibre for my Kobo for several years, I think the default setting has the "series_index" or maybe I accidentally set it when I started to use Calibre before I knew what I was doing, but I never wanted "01 - title" from the first beginning. Anyway, since this is the solution, I got it now.

Calibre definitely doesn't have an built-in metadata plugboards. Any that exist were created by you.

Thanks, it looks like the "series_index" is useful, I use this function sometimes but not the series_index directly, I just changed the title of all the books I need to read in order into "(1)title", "(2)title"... in my Calibre Library, since now I know "series_index" can do this, I'll keep it and use "series_index" for the order purpose .



I already set "Automatic management" in "Preference->Sending books to device", but always update the metadata manually, I'll see if it works.

Thanks again for the explanation, it helps a lot.

UPDATE:
Actually the "Automatic management" is not that perfect, I plug my kobo forma, in one series A, I change a file title, add a comment in "Edit Metadata" window, change the series_index of multiple files, in series B, I change all the series index, change one title, unplug, series A got updated automatically, but series B is not synced, I replug and unplug again, then the metadata of series B is finally synced.

Were the books in series B on the device when you connected the first time? The driver, or the plugin for that matter, can only do metadata updates for books that are on the device and imported into the database. I occasionally think that something didn't get updated, but, when I check, I can usually prove that I missed doing something.

But, if you are finding books are not being updated, run calibre in debug mode and post the log. I can look at it and hopefully see what is happening.

[codychan]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Calibre definitely doesn't have an built-in metadata plugboards. Any that exist were created by you.


Were the books in series B on the device when you connected the first time? The driver, or the plugin for that matter, can only do metadata updates for books that are on the device and imported into the database. I occasionally think that something didn't get updated, but, when I check, I can usually prove that I missed doing something.

But, if you are finding books are not being updated, run calibre in debug mode and post the log. I can look at it and hopefully see what is happening.

Yes, all the books I modified are already inside my kobo device, I just changed the metadata and test the "Automatic management", plug->change metabada-> Eject the device, that's all, and I tried several times for books in series B, and every time it doesn't sync automatically, I have to replug again, don't know why.

Here is the log of debug-mode, steps:
1. restart calibre in debug mode
2. plug kobo device, wait for the process completed
3. change a title in series B
4. Eject this device, check the kobo library, title is not updated
5. replug kobo device, wait for the process completed
6. Eject this device, check the kobo library, the title is updated.
7. exit Calibre and get the log file

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by codychan

Yes, all the books I modified are already inside my kobo device, I just changed the metadata and test the "Automatic management", plug->change metabada-> Eject the device, that's all, and I tried several times for books in series B, and every time it doesn't sync automatically, I have to replug again, don't know why.

Here is the log of debug-mode, steps:
1. restart calibre in debug mode
2. plug kobo device, wait for the process completed
3. change a title in series B
4. Eject this device, check the kobo library, title is not updated
5. replug kobo device, wait for the process completed
6. Eject this device, check the kobo library, the title is updated.
7. exit Calibre and get the log file

That is working as designed. The metadata is updated on the device when it is connected. There are several jobs run at that time. The "Send metadata to device" job is the one that does the update. And changes made after that job is run does not get updated on the device until the next time the device is connected.

[codychan]

Originally Posted by davidfor

That is working as designed. The metadata is updated on the device when it is connected. There are several jobs run at that time. The "Send metadata to device" job is the one that does the update. And changes made after that job is run does not get updated on the device until the next time the device is connected.

So every time I change the metadata of a file if the kobo device is already connected, I have to unplug and replug again to make it sync into my kobo device? I thought when I connect my kobo with Calibre, once I change the metadata, it will automatically sync the changes into kobo device without replug again.

If this is the case, it is OK, at least it is better than manually update metadata to device.


UPDATE:
I found that when I connect kobo device with Calibre, and modify the metadata of a file such as changing the title, I can use "Device->Update cached metadata on deivice", and I don't have to unplug and replug again, it will sync the metadata into kobo device.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by codychan

So every time I change the metadata of a file if the kobo device is already connected, I have to unplug and replug again to make it sync into my kobo device? I thought when I connect my kobo with Calibre, once I change the metadata, it will automatically sync the changes into kobo device without replug again.

If this is the case, it is OK, at least it is better than manually update metadata to device.


UPDATE:
I found that when I connect kobo device with Calibre, and modify the metadata of a file such as changing the title, I can use "Device->Update cached metadata on deivice", and I don't have to unplug and replug again, it will sync the metadata into kobo device.

All that is correct. And if you send a book to the device, it will also trigger the update. But, as I rarely change metadata while the device is connected, it doesn't worry me. Most of the times I am editing metadata for a book that is on the device, I have the device next to me showing what I need to fix. And it is rarely more than tweaks. I update the metadata when I add the book to my library, and unless I see spelling or formatting mistake later, probably do not touch it again.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by codychan

No, I've been using Calibre for my Kobo for several years, this is the first time I touched plugboard in "[N]Preference->Metadata plugboards[/B]", I think the default setting has the "series_index".

And I DO NOT want the "series_index" in my Kobo library

I had never seen series-indes in a plugboard so I did an install of calibre 5.14 in a new VM so no previous history to worry about. No plugboards never mind one with series-index to be seen in Preferences => Metadata plugboards. I would suggest that at some point in time you added a plugboard manually.