Poll: Real-life battery lifetime experience - Page 7

NatCh · 01-03-2007, 02:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Can you say Babelbattery?

No, I can't -- you should wash your mouth out with soap for saying such a foul word!

nerys · 01-10-2007, 03:47 AM

well WHY don't you see them using AAA AA ? (consider the FIRST sony ebook librie used AAA's) the reason for this is battery life. Most portable devices are HIGH DRAIN or "often drained" ie you use it a LOT

With something like this (VERY LOW DRAIN) regardless of usage pattern it makes NO SENSE to use a rechargeable battery.

I am the kind of person who keeps my gadgets for a LONG TIME. I still have (and use every now and then) my original palm pilot :-) it has its uses :-)

I don't like it when my gadgets become paper weights JUST because of a damned battery. Now if its something so specialized that its required to make it useful FINE (note a replaceable battery is NO better than a NON Replaceable battery since the same problem exists. will you be able to FIND any battery replaceable or not.

IF its something that will be replaced with something newer anyway (mini mp3 players) I can tolerate it.

but for something like this reader which I plan on using for 10+ years (the battery WILL NOT last that long mind you) it bugs the crap out of me (though not enough not to buy it)

AAA's will be here long after you and I are dead :-)

If they wanted to include batteries make them NIMHS and alkalines would probably last for over 10,000 page turns!

Chris Taylor
http://www.nerys.com/

HarryT · 01-10-2007, 04:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nerys

well WHY don't you see them using AAA AA ? (consider the FIRST sony ebook librie used AAA's) the reason for this is battery life. Most portable devices are HIGH DRAIN or "often drained" ie you use it a LOT

With something like this (VERY LOW DRAIN) regardless of usage pattern it makes NO SENSE to use a rechargeable battery.

Because, as I said in an earlier post, Chris, it is "high drain" if you use it as an MP3 player. Not that I would do personally, because my iPod is a much better MP3 player, but remember that the Reader is an MP3 player as well as a book reader.

I don't think many people would want to have to buy a new set of AAA batteries every day, if they were to use it for that purpose. Plugging it into a wall socket for a couple of hours is much less hassle.

Aprilbeginnings · 01-10-2007, 08:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

Because, as I said in an earlier post, Chris, it is "high drain" if you use it as an MP3 player. Not that I would do personally, because my iPod is a much better MP3 player, but remember that the Reader is an MP3 player as well as a book reader.

I don't think many people would want to have to buy a new set of AAA batteries every day, if they were to use it for that purpose. Plugging it into a wall socket for a couple of hours is much less hassle.

I know I sure wouldn't want to go out and buy batteries all the time. My camera which is an old sony mavica (which has finally been replaced with a 10 mexapixel which sony didn't have even one, LOL) it's battery is rechargeable and still on the go and I have had it for a long long time, I can probably even say close to ten years, or so it would seem......and if the time comes this reader needs a new one, I will take it to the sony store and let them put a new one in it for me. I sure as heck am not going to tear the thing apart, ha ha. A vacuum cleaner I do , but this reader......... nope.

yvanleterrible · 01-10-2007, 08:33 AM

Mi MHs are the best because of all the types of available power cells they are the less toxic for environment. Is choose most electronic equipment according to two features. SD compatibility and double or triple A power. With intelligent charger, batteries take from 1 to 2 hours to charge. My older cells are 8 years old and still take a long drain time.

Does anyone know if there is an other standard coming along that would be even less toxic? I would also like to see an even smaller rechargeable size than 3A.

HarryT · 01-10-2007, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Does anyone know if there is an other standard coming along that would be even less toxic? I would also like to see an even smaller rechargeable size than 3A.

Several companies are working on fuel cells to power notebook PCs, but I don't know if they could be made small enough for something like the Reader. Fuel cells are very environmentally friendly - their only by-product is water vapour.

yvanleterrible · 01-10-2007, 10:32 AM

The main problem with them is hydrogen containment; there is a 10% loss per day of the gas permeating through the barrier in the best materials.

Also companies promoting hydrogen(all petrol companies) want us to be dependant on them. The same reason no one wants electric cars. They want consumers keeping the petrol fuel(s) distribution networks in place, intact and lucrative.

NatCh · 01-10-2007, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

Does anyone know if there is an other standard coming along that would be even less toxic? I would also like to see an even smaller rechargeable size than 3A.

These things (still very experimental) have me positively drooling.

If they pan out they potentially could even make electric cars actually practical -- no having to wait 10 hours for your car to re-charge so you can continue your trip.

HarryT · 01-10-2007, 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvanleterrible

The main problem with them is hydrogen containment; there is a 10% loss per day of the gas permeating through the barrier in the best materials.

I believe that the way that's being overcome is to store the fuel in an external tank, and only feed it to the cell as required. The demos I've seen of the notebook batteries have a separate fuel tank and a tiny mechanical pump which feeds the fuel (ethanol) into the cell as it's required.

Obviously, though, notebook batteries can be enormously larger than a Reader's battery. It'll probably be a long time before such things can be reduced in size sufficiently for something the size of the Reader.

NatCh · 01-10-2007, 12:34 PM

I thought fuel cells only used hydrogen, there's an ethanol one?

HarryT · 01-10-2007, 12:44 PM

Yes, the demo I saw of a notebook battery was fuelled by ethanol. You just squirted ethanol from a little squeezy bottle into a valve on the side of the battery and it powered it for about 12h. Very neat!

NatCh · 01-10-2007, 12:51 PM

Very neat indeed. I'd like to see that, myself.

I found a couple of interesting links (amazing what you can find with google if you just look

) here and here.

erasure25 · 01-12-2007, 07:19 PM

When I opened my Sony Reader on Dec. 24 (early xmas present

, I charged it fully, loaded some books, and then began playing with it unpluged. I have probably done about 1000 "page turns." I am estimating the number of "page turns" by including:
1. Actual page turns in a book
2. Approximate number of times turn on and off (each counting "1 page turn")
3. Approximate number of times I've switched the page to view the menu or to set a bookmark.

I have not charged it since Dec. 24 and just today, I got the "low battery" warning. This seems short of the 7000+ sony stated. I assume this is because the battery drains over time and that it takes a few charges to reach peak power storage. I would also assume it uses some power to remember which book you are reading since it turns on with the last page viewed. I should also note that I use an SD card, which may use up more power to access?

L1Wulf · 01-13-2007, 12:06 AM

With the extreme cold we are currently experiencing here in Denver, CO. I just experienced an incredible drop from fully charged to three bars--in one day. Most of my reading was done outside, in the cold, while smoking. In addition to todays low temps, we've had a few days in the sub 40's since I've purchased my Reader (28th Dec), and had recharged it last night at two bars (only because I was updating books and figured I'd just let it charge until the light went out).

The times I noticed sudden changes in the battery meter seemed to be during the cold as well. Several times I went from three bars during the (cold) day, back to four at night when reading in (warm) bed.

bob_ninja · 01-15-2007, 12:47 PM

I have an MP3 player that uses a single AAA battery. I use NiMH AAA battery and it lasts a long time, many hours. You could easily design the Reader to use 3 or 4 AAAs and still be able to play music for a long time while turning pages. Self discharge is higher in typical NiMH, while LiIon is much lower, hence the choice of LiIon. However, he new Eneloop and hybrid type NiMH batteries also have a very low self discharge rate. That provides the best of both:
1) can be left alone for months and batteries won't drain
2) can provide a lot of current for MP3 playing and other needs
3) still has plenty of juice for music and page turns
4) can recharge

L1Wulf,
Batteries produce electricity via chemical processes which invariably slow down a great deal at low temps, such as 0 C and below freezing. The meter is simply telling you that the battery is unable to produce the necessary current and is not actually empty. After it warms up the meter will bounce back up.

Thus you really cannot use the reader outside during winter and there is no easy solution

View Poll Results: How long does the battery last for you
5 hrs	1	1.27%
10 hrs	5	6.33%
15 hrs	2	2.53%
20 hrs	7	8.86%
20+ hrs	64	81.01%
Voters: 79. You may not vote on this poll

01-10-2007, 12:51 PM	#102
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	Very neat indeed. I'd like to see that, myself. I found a couple of interesting links (amazing what you can find with google if you just look ) here and here. Last edited by NatCh; 01-10-2007 at 12:54 PM. Reason: added some links

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01-10-2007, 03:47 AM	#92
nerys Addict Posts: 243 Karma: 48 Join Date: Dec 2006 Device: PRS 500 - REB 1200	well WHY don't you see them using AAA AA ? (consider the FIRST sony ebook librie used AAA's) the reason for this is battery life. Most portable devices are HIGH DRAIN or "often drained" ie you use it a LOT With something like this (VERY LOW DRAIN) regardless of usage pattern it makes NO SENSE to use a rechargeable battery. I am the kind of person who keeps my gadgets for a LONG TIME. I still have (and use every now and then) my original palm pilot :-) it has its uses :-) I don't like it when my gadgets become paper weights JUST because of a damned battery. Now if its something so specialized that its required to make it useful FINE (note a replaceable battery is NO better than a NON Replaceable battery since the same problem exists. will you be able to FIND any battery replaceable or not. IF its something that will be replaced with something newer anyway (mini mp3 players) I can tolerate it. but for something like this reader which I plan on using for 10+ years (the battery WILL NOT last that long mind you) it bugs the crap out of me (though not enough not to buy it) AAA's will be here long after you and I are dead :-) If they wanted to include batteries make them NIMHS and alkalines would probably last for over 10,000 page turns! Chris Taylor http://www.nerys.com/

01-10-2007, 08:33 AM	#95
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	Mi MHs are the best because of all the types of available power cells they are the less toxic for environment. Is choose most electronic equipment according to two features. SD compatibility and double or triple A power. With intelligent charger, batteries take from 1 to 2 hours to charge. My older cells are 8 years old and still take a long drain time. Does anyone know if there is an other standard coming along that would be even less toxic? I would also like to see an even smaller rechargeable size than 3A.

01-10-2007, 10:32 AM	#97
yvanleterrible Reborn Paper User Posts: 8,616 Karma: 15446734 Join Date: May 2006 Location: Que Nada Device: iPhone8, iPad Air	The main problem with them is hydrogen containment; there is a 10% loss per day of the gas permeating through the barrier in the best materials. Also companies promoting hydrogen(all petrol companies) want us to be dependant on them. The same reason no one wants electric cars. They want consumers keeping the petrol fuel(s) distribution networks in place, intact and lucrative.

01-10-2007, 12:34 PM	#100
NatCh Gizmologist Posts: 11,615 Karma: 929550 Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Republic of Texas Embassy at Jackson, TN Device: Pocketbook Touch HD3	I thought fuel cells only used hydrogen, there's an ethanol one?

01-10-2007, 12:44 PM	#101
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Yes, the demo I saw of a notebook battery was fuelled by ethanol. You just squirted ethanol from a little squeezy bottle into a valve on the side of the battery and it powered it for about 12h. Very neat!

01-12-2007, 07:19 PM	#103
erasure25 Connoisseur Posts: 63 Karma: 601321 Join Date: Jan 2007 Device: Sony PRS-950; PRS-505	When I opened my Sony Reader on Dec. 24 (early xmas present , I charged it fully, loaded some books, and then began playing with it unpluged. I have probably done about 1000 "page turns." I am estimating the number of "page turns" by including: 1. Actual page turns in a book 2. Approximate number of times turn on and off (each counting "1 page turn") 3. Approximate number of times I've switched the page to view the menu or to set a bookmark. I have not charged it since Dec. 24 and just today, I got the "low battery" warning. This seems short of the 7000+ sony stated. I assume this is because the battery drains over time and that it takes a few charges to reach peak power storage. I would also assume it uses some power to remember which book you are reading since it turns on with the last page viewed. I should also note that I use an SD card, which may use up more power to access?

01-13-2007, 12:06 AM	#104
L1Wulf Enthusiast Posts: 49 Karma: 27 Join Date: Dec 2006 Location: Denver, CO Device: nook	With the extreme cold we are currently experiencing here in Denver, CO. I just experienced an incredible drop from fully charged to three bars--in one day. Most of my reading was done outside, in the cold, while smoking. In addition to todays low temps, we've had a few days in the sub 40's since I've purchased my Reader (28th Dec), and had recharged it last night at two bars (only because I was updating books and figured I'd just let it charge until the light went out). The times I noticed sudden changes in the battery meter seemed to be during the cold as well. Several times I went from three bars during the (cold) day, back to four at night when reading in (warm) bed.

01-15-2007, 12:47 PM	#105
bob_ninja Addict Posts: 208 Karma: 582 Join Date: Aug 2006 Device: Zire71	I have an MP3 player that uses a single AAA battery. I use NiMH AAA battery and it lasts a long time, many hours. You could easily design the Reader to use 3 or 4 AAAs and still be able to play music for a long time while turning pages. Self discharge is higher in typical NiMH, while LiIon is much lower, hence the choice of LiIon. However, he new Eneloop and hybrid type NiMH batteries also have a very low self discharge rate. That provides the best of both: 1) can be left alone for months and batteries won't drain 2) can provide a lot of current for MP3 playing and other needs 3) still has plenty of juice for music and page turns 4) can recharge L1Wulf, Batteries produce electricity via chemical processes which invariably slow down a great deal at low temps, such as 0 C and below freezing. The meter is simply telling you that the battery is unable to produce the necessary current and is not actually empty. After it warms up the meter will bounce back up. Thus you really cannot use the reader outside during winter and there is no easy solution

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