It's so easy for me to lose perspective...

Originally Posted by TechniSol

It's evidence of a greater problem. Most people simply don't relate to anything except in the way by which it affects them.

I'm not sure that this is true. I get the impression that most people have enough good sense to leave a thread alone if it is too intensely in the realm of personal issues. Of course, it is easier to notice people who post than those who don't post. As such it's easier to notice people who have an issue with something rather than those who don't have an issue. In other words: we notice those who are affected by something, and don't notice those who aren't affected.

It amazes me that so many see only their side of an issue and fully fail to recognize there might just be another argument or a compromise to be had... except when I do it, of course.

Two comments on that:

I try to think of both sides of an issue, yet I find that confuses a lot of people. They seem to assume that I am taking one side, and argue based on that. In that respect, I suspect that your insights are true.

The second point is that even those of us who see both sides, and feel compelled to speak up, are really representing one side. That one side may be the third side, i.e. let's find a compromise or let's try to understand why something is being done. That third side may also be something entirely different. Perhaps I'm speaking entirely for myself here, but I get a wee bit miffed when someone assumes that they are right on a subjective matter and I feel compelled to present a counter-view. I don't necessarily agree with that view, but I put it forth to say something to the effect of, "hey, there is no right way to think of this!"

[aceflor]

What is often happening and is infuriating me is the way others, always the same group of members btw, decide what is a bug, what is not, who is allowed to complain, who is not, how we should complain, how we should not. In German we have a verb for this : bevormunden. Sadly, there appears to be no exact translation in english.

I even read posts when some of these glorious members advised another not to complain directly to Kobo, since it would not accelerate anything and put too much unnecessary pressure on Kobo. So globally it was : do not complain here, you are bothering us. Do not complain to Kobo, you are bothering them. Logically, it comes in the end to : DO NOT COMPLAIN, IT IS PERFECT AS IT IS.

A new thread pops out that is critical ? There comes the cavalry.

Which makes me wonder, again, about what is the mission of these members, and what they are. Just private persons, members of MR, or do they have some other kind of relations to Kobo ? Because I have been at MR for years now, and am active on different boards of this forum, and I have never, never experienced group pressure at this level in any other boards. Not in the amazon board, nor in the sony, nor in the nook, nor in the pb one.

It is eerie...

[TechniSol]

Ace,

This is not Stepford. But, like everywhere else people do get enamored of their toys. Some posters here have, or still do, participate in Beta testing for Kobo, so they see things differently. Likely, they have seen far worse, and probably can appreciate positive change in ways others don't.

Some just do not like negativity and subscribe to the, "If you can't say anything nice..." policy. I suspect they must all be Canadians... (Hey, stop throwing the Molsen bottles, that was a compliment.)

Others likely get their hackles up when someone without mention of a Kobo in their Device list starts in as they probably feel it's trolling, and it often is. Kobo has features others don't and sometimes owners of other equipment feel they must stop by and criticize the Kobo failings while conveniently ignoring the pluses. Maybe they just feel inadequate?

[meeera]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

By the way, don't expect people to listen to you endlessly bitch about minor issues because they offend your doubtlessly self diagnosed OCD without getting tired of it when you continue to repeat it in other threads.

What I'd like to see is less of this sort of jeering, personal mockery.

[TechniSol]

Meera,

Sorry if I offended your more genteel sensibilities, but come on, people have actually come out and said things to that effect.(the my OCD bit...)

Endless gibbering about a minor point in a reader software likely due to be replaced as they're working on a new standard, when there are larger issues at hand seems pointless, and maybe a bit much when thread after thread is infected with it even after posters are asked to desist. All the commotion over a single line title displayed in a space Kobo apparently wishes to reserve for a menu line. The end result, no title display and no more lines of text on the display! Whoops, they did add one at the bottom where most failed to notice it missing despite being so wound up over wasted space.

Would someone look up phyrric victory in the dictionary? Asking for the option might have been the only sensible course. I'm reading a 4500 page collection and would dearly benefit from seeing chapter titles, which are really individual story titles, displayed, but I'm not lobbying for that. I can use the TOC to find what I need.

By the way, it was not directed at any one person, in any way shape or form, but if it resonates, one might do well to dwell on it for a bit. My apologies to anyone actually diagnosed with OCD, but my disdain in equal measure for the self diagnosed not possessing medical degrees.

By the way, if you're going to quote me, I'd appreciate very much that you quote the entire thought or paragraph written.

[guma]

Originally Posted by aceflor

What is often happening and is infuriating me is the way others, always the same group of members btw, decide what is a bug, what is not, who is allowed to complain, who is not, how we should complain, how we should not. In German we have a verb for this : bevormunden. Sadly, there appears to be no exact translation in english.

I even read posts when some of these glorious members advised another not to complain directly to Kobo, since it would not accelerate anything and put too much unnecessary pressure on Kobo. So globally it was : do not complain here, you are bothering us. Do not complain to Kobo, you are bothering them. Logically, it comes in the end to : DO NOT COMPLAIN, IT IS PERFECT AS IT IS.

A new thread pops out that is critical ? There comes the cavalry.

Which makes me wonder, again, about what is the mission of these members, and what they are. Just private persons, members of MR, or do they have some other kind of relations to Kobo ? Because I have been at MR for years now, and am active on different boards of this forum, and I have never, never experienced group pressure at this level in any other boards. Not in the amazon board, nor in the sony, nor in the nook, nor in the pb one.

It is eerie...

Having dealt with KOBO customer support and with their firmware for some time gives me the impression that they don't care too much about their customers. Thus it would surprise me if the people in this forum who appear to be very much attached to KOBO were actually doing some sort of paid (or otherwise rewarded) 'undercover' PR.

But the extent of some folks' KOBO enthusiasm (combined - let's face it - with a tendency to intolerance towards people not sharing this enthusiasm) is interesting none the less .... Interesting too that none of the 'implicitly accused' answered to the post quoted above.

Maybe this is board is entering a new era of tolerance and openness ;-)

[aceflor]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Ace,

This is not Stepford. But, like everywhere else people do get enamored of their toys. Some posters here have, or still do, participate in Beta testing for Kobo, so they see things differently. Likely, they have seen far worse, and probably can appreciate positive change in ways others don't.

Some just do not like negativity and subscribe to the, "If you can't say anything nice..." policy. I suspect they must all be Canadians... (Hey, stop throwing the Molsen bottles, that was a compliment.)

Others likely get their hackles up when someone without mention of a Kobo in their Device list starts in as they probably feel it's trolling, and it often is. Kobo has features others don't and sometimes owners of other equipment feel they must stop by and criticize the Kobo failings while conveniently ignoring the pluses. Maybe they just feel inadequate?

Regarding those you suspect of trolling, I am not sure all of them are. I can assure you for instance that Jon, who is often accused of doing so, in this board or in others, is not. He thinks differently, and although it can be annoying at time, he is just trying in his best way to express that. What may look like trolling, or very stubborn and repetitive attitude is not. It is not an attitude he is projecting, it is his way of trying to meet us half way. I recognize the pattern very well, again I can assure you he is not trolling, and I really wish the world was more tolerant to people whose brains work differently, because Jon is making the effort to try to make us see what he sees and understand better.

Enough said, I just hope you understand it. And that in general this board here will learn to be much more tolerant, because according to the Ks and the PMs received after my last post (thank you all for the support btw), there is much work to do and I am by far not the only one saying so. I'd have to check, but some of the positive feedback might even have come from Canadians.

[TechniSol]

Conspiracy theories abound... LOL

I'm sorry, but that is too rich for me... The most I'd seriously accuse anyone of is a bit of fanboy or girl -ism... I doubt there's a payscale in any way appropriate to a few people merely saying they are happy with things as they are, or in some cases possibly indicating that they might sometimes know more than you about what's coming down the pike perhaps by mentioning that they know other issues are being worked on -though most of the beta testers seem to be as in the dark about final releases as the rest of us.

[TechniSol]

Ace,

I think it likely that much of what is said by people who appear to have "no skin in the game" would be perceived as less offensive if they at least appeared to own the equipment they are complaining about. That may explain some people getting annoyed. It's not exactly polite to negatively post in a forum complaining about something when you have no interest in the matter.

Who is Jon? I don't really suspect anyone of trolling, but seeing device lists with no mention of the hardware to which the forum is devoted does generally make people wonder why someone is complaining about it... Especially if they do it in an especially disparaging way, or display only negativity and no solutions...

[aceflor]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Ace,

I think it likely that much of what is said by people who appear to have "no skin in the game" would be perceived as less offensive if they at least appeared to own the equipment they are complaining about. That may explain some people getting annoyed. It's not exactly polite to negatively post in a forum complaining about something when you have no interest in the matter.

Who is Jon? I don't really suspect anyone of trolling, but seeing device lists with no mention of the hardware to which the forum is devoted does generally make people wonder why someone is complaining about it... Especially if they do it in an especially disparaging way, or display only negativity and no solutions...

He has interest in the matter, even if he does not have or use all devices. I will answer you further in a PM.

[meeera]

Originally Posted by TechniSol

Meera,

Sorry if I offended your more genteel sensibilities, but come on, people have actually come out and said things to that effect.(the my OCD bit...)

Endless gibbering about a minor point in a reader software likely due to be replaced as they're working on a new standard, when there are larger issues at hand seems pointless, and maybe a bit much when thread after thread is infected with it even after posters are asked to desist. All the commotion over a single line title displayed in a space Kobo apparently wishes to reserve for a menu line. The end result, no title display and no more lines of text on the display! Whoops, they did add one at the bottom where most failed to notice it missing despite being so wound up over wasted space.

Would someone look up phyrric victory in the dictionary? Asking for the option might have been the only sensible course. I'm reading a 4500 page collection and would dearly benefit from seeing chapter titles, which are really individual story titles, displayed, but I'm not lobbying for that. I can use the TOC to find what I need.

By the way, it was not directed at any one person, in any way shape or form, but if it resonates, one might do well to dwell on it for a bit. My apologies to anyone actually diagnosed with OCD, but my disdain in equal measure for the self diagnosed not possessing medical degrees.

By the way, if you're going to quote me, I'd appreciate very much that you quote the entire thought or paragraph written.

All I am asking is that people play the ball, not the person. People who are disgruntled about a feature change are talking about the device and its software. Some people (one person?) may have done this out of place, and that's been dealt with. (Over and over and over!)

Speculation about mobilereaders' mental health issues is, in my opinion, unnecessarily personal and out of bounds.

For the record, I don't have OCD, self diagnosed or otherwise, but I am in possession of a medical degree.

[TechniSol]

Well, what I'd like to see is less people taking advantage of self diagnosed "conditions" to justify their day to day actions and predilection for having a ready excuse for whatever behavior it is they're trying to pass off. Frankly, while I appreciate your opinion, I don't consider my opinion, directed at no one in particular, or by handle, avatar or name, to be a personal attack of any kind. Further, I've about had it with the ridiculous political correctness with which some people seem all too concerned.

As for speculation concerning anyone's mental health issues, as I remember it, someone commented on how the smaller text titles affected their or "my" OCD... I'm sorry, but to what degree is a company expected to please everyone and deal with their conditions real or imagined? Surely, one must realize that the world cannot be expected to adapt to all of their needs, and that they must adapt to meet the world. If your opinion differs I'd suggest you were doing the person a disservice in supporting the person's delusion that the world will change to meet their needs, when such is hardly very often the case.

[meeera]

I've said what I wanted to say, and I'm going to leave it at that.

[TechniSol]

Ditto.

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by BWinmill

I agree with most of what I snipped out.

One thing to realize though is that print books were typeset by professionals and did not suffer from many of the bugs that Kobo's automated typesetting software does. I don't mean to support the Kobo naysayers with that statement, but I'd be dishonest if I didn't acknowledge that fact. But the other fact is that I read to read and rarely notice these bugs, which is why I don't weigh those bugs as heavily as some people would.

(That said, Kobo developers, I would still like to see those bugs fixed!)

While I'd agree that there are time when the bugs in the Kobo software cause issues with the appearance on screen of an ebook, I have even more issues with the number of ebooks that look as if they were produced by a high school student trying to get work experience hours. I realize that producing ebooks for multiple ereaders is not as simple in very many ways as producing a physical book but still, I would like the publishers to spend a bit more time on polishing the appearance of their ebooks, to strive for the same level of professional production as seen in most print books.

So to second, Kobo developers, fix your bugs.

And ebook publishers, spend the time to develop a style that gives your ebooks a professionally produced look and then make use of that style with people who have the experience and training to know enough to know when to follow and when to break those rules.

Regards,
David