There is no copyright - Page 5

ardeegee · 05-14-2011, 01:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

But they can be trademarked, and that title is a trademark. You therefore couldn't use it.

According to this you can only trademark a part of a title that is used in a series of books, like "Chicken Soup for the", or "Harry Potter and the."

Quote:

Originally Posted by carld

Oddly, the "Harry Potter" name itself has only one trademark -- for "Bath linens, namely, bath towels and wash cloths; bed linens, namely, bed blankets, bed sheets, bed spreads, pillow cases, comforters, pillow shams and bed spreads; textile wall hangings."

Well, there was prior use of the name...

tompe · 05-14-2011, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leebase

Work for hire. Of course, that's one of the solutions. Authors can write free books as advertisement of their writing ability. Then folks will pay them to write books.

Oh wait. In this copyright free world, the corporations could not own the code you wrote for them. You would be free to take the code you wrote for pay, and then offer it for sale to any other corporation.

That depends on your contract. So you are not free to publish it if your contract forbids it. Just keep the source code secret and we have the same situation as today even if we do not have any copyright.

HarryT · 05-14-2011, 02:41 PM

Perhaps the rules are different in the US, but if you look at the link I gave you you'll see that the full title is a registered trademark in the UK

.

tompe · 05-14-2011, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

But your employer does, I suspect. If they didn't make a profit, you'd be out of a job.

Yes, they make a profit by selling the binary. So what is the problem?

Kevin2960 · 05-14-2011, 03:25 PM

I wish someone would poke Lee with a very BIG stick !!!

Quote:

Originally Posted by jgaiser

Yep... Just Lee poking with a stick..

Harmon · 05-14-2011, 05:03 PM

Interesting thought experiment. I agree that one result would likely be stronger DRM in the digital universe. But another might be that the price of pbooks would be driven down - paper plus low costs equals a kind of DRM based on economics.

It is also possible that the courts would replace, via the common law, the defunct statutory law.

In the digital universe, we might find that DRM protected by programs which erase the ebook if DRM is stripped, or even programs which counterattack the computer on which the stopping is attempted. There could be Trojan horse programs embedded in ebooks that activate when the book is moved to another EBR.

Pricing mechanisms would change. The idea that we own ebooks we buy might completely disappear, replaced by a rental model along the lines of Overdrive.

Recorded music would continue to be made only as an adjunct to live performance. Studio music will be limited to genres like classical & jazz, where the costs can be recovered by initial sales. Live performances might increase, and be more profitable.

The commercial movie industry would collapse into television & cable, except for specialty theatres like art theatres. Theatres would turn to live broadcasts of concerts, theatre and opera.

Elfwreck · 05-14-2011, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harmon

In the digital universe, we might find that DRM protected by programs which erase the ebook if DRM is stripped, or even programs which counterattack the computer on which the stopping is attempted. There could be Trojan horse programs embedded in ebooks that activate when the book is moved to another EBR.

The most strict and vicious DRM still can't get around the dedicated copyist with a keyboard. Books can still be typed in manually. With just slightly less restrictions, they can be screencapped and OCR'd. And the only software DRM that hasn't been broken is a matter of market share; once a type of DRM reaches a certain level of popularity, it gets cracked.

We've no reason to believe this dynamic would change if the law allowed DRM to hide secret viruses. On the contrary, I'd expect dedicated hacker networks to create virtual sandboxes devoted to cracking DRM--especially if the DRM-cracking itself is entirely legal, and the only possible violation is a TOS/contract law issue.

Quote:

Recorded music would continue to be made only as an adjunct to live performance. Studio music will be limited to genres like classical & jazz, where the costs can be recovered by initial sales. Live performances might increase, and be more profitable.

I suspect recorded music would work much like it does now, where people pay for convenience rather than ownership. "Pay $1 to have this sent to your phone without bothering to get home, connect the USB, open the program & sign into the website" is okay for a lot of people.

Prices on CDs would drop, but could still be profitable if they contained a few things that can't be easily copied. Jewel case inserts with raised or metallic letters or signatures or special paper would make them worth buying, and everyone would know the CD itself was mostly a promo for the band.

Quote:

The commercial movie industry would collapse into television & cable, except for specialty theatres like art theatres. Theatres would turn to live broadcasts of concerts, theatre and opera.

Could TV/Cable survive if it were legal for anyone to copy & share (and broadcast over the internet) the commercial-free version? What would prevent using local community-access channels from just scheduling popular movies, which would be much more popular than the Super Recycling Tricks show?

Movie theatres, I think, could survive just fine with very minor shifts. They've got something that end-users don't: extremely expensive hardware. If you want to see a movie on a 50' wide screen, you need to buy a ticket. Theatres would need to refocus their ads for "watch movies on big screen!" rather than "see the latest releases before anyone else has them!"--because they'd be available digitally almost immediately.

I suspect that the only way authors could count on making money if copyright were eliminated would be a return to patronage, and attempting to restrict actual copies from anyone who hadn't paid for access. (Which, gee, is what the Agency 6 do with their ebooks.) Tiny print runs with high costs, subscription clubs with strict contract language that mean "if you share this with someone who hasn't paid, you owe the author/distributor a year's income." Pbooks with tracking chips. Streamed ebooks that you can only read through once per payment.

I don't want copyright gone; I just want it returned to something like the 28+28 system. Bring back a way for content to fall into the public domain if nobody's paying attention to it.

OtterBooks · 05-14-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HarryT

But they can be trademarked, and that title is a trademark. You therefore couldn't use it.

oh. There goes that idea.

Greg Anos · 05-14-2011, 09:53 PM

To LeeBase - Disraeli!

I disagree with everything you say, But I defend to the death your right to say it.

carld · 05-14-2011, 10:41 PM

Of course if there's no copyright, there's probably no trademark either.

Giggleton · 05-14-2011, 10:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ebusinesstutor

If our society were more like Star Trek, where people's needs were taken care of without money, then people could create solely for the joy of it and the recognition.

But until then if we totally removed all copyright, etc., the only art we would have is folk art and the only books by amateurs.

How do you think a culture akin to Star Trek came about? For sure the tech had a lot to do with it, with ample food there is no need for money, but we can at least strive to attain the ideals of Star Trek while we are working on the tech, free sharing of all books is a good way to start.

Giggleton · 05-14-2011, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

Bring back a way for content to fall into the public domain if nobody's paying attention to it.

I agree, if no one pays attention to your work, i.e. if your work is not read by a set number of readers within a set amount of time your work falls into the public domain?? It's a crazy idea, just about as crazy as copyright.

Who exactly are you asking to bring back a way for this content to fall into the public domain anyway? Yourself? Go ahead and do that.

Leyor · 05-15-2011, 05:40 AM

I'll participate in this experiment

In terms of writer demographics, I'd envision that we'd have a much broader base, as more people would be used to the idea of selfpublishing. There's be selfpublishing eco systems involving some sort of editor function, either through social networking with authors editing for each other and/or as a paid service. Authors would be used to the idea of earning their income through an associated ecosystem rather than through the traditional way, and those that feel they have a book in them would still write and hope to hit it big time.

In terms of market model, there would be a much greater focus on proliferation and derivatives. Just like alot of high quality services are made and given away for free today outside the book industry, the same would be the case for books. Books would be written and then attempted to spread to as wide an audience as possible to build a fanbase.

From that fanbase the author/publisher would earn their income in deriviatives. Extremely cheap paperback books for those wanting a real bound but almost free copy, just making a dollar or so above material cost to be on equal level with anyone else who could just copy the work. Expensive leather bound volumes, perhaps signed by the author. Also some of the income would come from book tours, speeches and merchandise (merchandise with a very low profit margin, aiming at the people okay with paying an extra 1 dollar to get the "official" product". Mainly it'd come from the entire eco system that'd be built around an author, their blog and advertisement, endorsements that'd help other companies products distinguish themselves in a world where everyone can copy their products for free.

Reviewers would be alot more influental, and probably earning a good living. In a world where things are spread for free over the internet, the market would be very saturated. Trusted reviewers that can help people sort through all the free stuff would become alot more important.

Bookstores would still exist, both selling the cheap mass paperbacks and copies, also more luxury item designed to the authors fanbase. There'd be print a book machines, where people can go and buy their own cheap copy for just a few bucks. Just put in the title/name, and it'll spit out a cheap book with a cheapass cover.

Publishers would still exist, they'd probably need to become alot more visible. In a world where everyone can copy for free, and the market is very saturated, a good publisher would be a name brand, helping the consumer sort through the jungle of free books. They'd offer their e-books for free to reach as big an audience as possible and earn their living selling off ads and assorted products. They'd still print books, but at a much less profit margin, they might make endorsement deals with the print a book companies, supplying specialized covers/editions, They'd have a much bigger marketing staff, as they'd be focused on how to spread the free books as wide as possible, through forums and potential fanbases. Also they'd be specialized in making accompagnying products and additional services and finding exactly what products their potential demographiic would be interested in having specialized.

Thats just my idea of how it might look, of course we might kill off books and all be watching TV instead, it's all speculative at this point

But seeing how alot of others are successfull offering their high quality products away for free, I've modelled my vision a bit on that.

K-Thom · 05-15-2011, 06:37 AM

This thread is still open? Will wonders never cease?

People, get out, take a deeep breath of fresh air, cuddle a dog, visit a friend. But stop wasting your time here. Honestly. I'm concerned.

Giggleton · 05-15-2011, 09:51 AM

The thing about thought experiments is that they are more than just thought experiments, how do you think our reality is shaped?

I think the reviewers in this brave new world we are envisioning will be able to make more money than the creators

That is if we end copyright before money becomes meaningless which I hope we do.

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05-14-2011, 02:41 PM	#63
HarryT eBook Enthusiast Posts: 85,544 Karma: 93383043 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: UK Device: Kindle Oasis 2, iPad Pro 10.5", iPhone 6	Perhaps the rules are different in the US, but if you look at the link I gave you you'll see that the full title is a registered trademark in the UK .

05-14-2011, 05:03 PM	#66
Harmon King of the Bongo Drums Posts: 1,622 Karma: 5927225 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Excelsior! (Strange...)	Interesting thought experiment. I agree that one result would likely be stronger DRM in the digital universe. But another might be that the price of pbooks would be driven down - paper plus low costs equals a kind of DRM based on economics. It is also possible that the courts would replace, via the common law, the defunct statutory law. In the digital universe, we might find that DRM protected by programs which erase the ebook if DRM is stripped, or even programs which counterattack the computer on which the stopping is attempted. There could be Trojan horse programs embedded in ebooks that activate when the book is moved to another EBR. Pricing mechanisms would change. The idea that we own ebooks we buy might completely disappear, replaced by a rental model along the lines of Overdrive. Recorded music would continue to be made only as an adjunct to live performance. Studio music will be limited to genres like classical & jazz, where the costs can be recovered by initial sales. Live performances might increase, and be more profitable. The commercial movie industry would collapse into television & cable, except for specialty theatres like art theatres. Theatres would turn to live broadcasts of concerts, theatre and opera.

05-14-2011, 09:53 PM	#69
Greg Anos Grand Sorcerer Posts: 11,248 Karma: 35000000 Join Date: Jan 2008 Device: Pocketbook	To LeeBase - Disraeli! I disagree with everything you say, But I defend to the death your right to say it.

05-14-2011, 10:41 PM	#70
carld Wizard Posts: 2,698 Karma: 4748723 Join Date: Dec 2007 Device: Kindle Paperwhite	Of course if there's no copyright, there's probably no trademark either.

05-15-2011, 05:40 AM	#73
Leyor Ninja Librarian Posts: 179 Karma: 347750 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Denmark Device: Sony PRS-950, Cybook 3. gen, Sony T1, Kindle Paperwhite	I'll participate in this experiment In terms of writer demographics, I'd envision that we'd have a much broader base, as more people would be used to the idea of selfpublishing. There's be selfpublishing eco systems involving some sort of editor function, either through social networking with authors editing for each other and/or as a paid service. Authors would be used to the idea of earning their income through an associated ecosystem rather than through the traditional way, and those that feel they have a book in them would still write and hope to hit it big time. In terms of market model, there would be a much greater focus on proliferation and derivatives. Just like alot of high quality services are made and given away for free today outside the book industry, the same would be the case for books. Books would be written and then attempted to spread to as wide an audience as possible to build a fanbase. From that fanbase the author/publisher would earn their income in deriviatives. Extremely cheap paperback books for those wanting a real bound but almost free copy, just making a dollar or so above material cost to be on equal level with anyone else who could just copy the work. Expensive leather bound volumes, perhaps signed by the author. Also some of the income would come from book tours, speeches and merchandise (merchandise with a very low profit margin, aiming at the people okay with paying an extra 1 dollar to get the "official" product". Mainly it'd come from the entire eco system that'd be built around an author, their blog and advertisement, endorsements that'd help other companies products distinguish themselves in a world where everyone can copy their products for free. Reviewers would be alot more influental, and probably earning a good living. In a world where things are spread for free over the internet, the market would be very saturated. Trusted reviewers that can help people sort through all the free stuff would become alot more important. Bookstores would still exist, both selling the cheap mass paperbacks and copies, also more luxury item designed to the authors fanbase. There'd be print a book machines, where people can go and buy their own cheap copy for just a few bucks. Just put in the title/name, and it'll spit out a cheap book with a cheapass cover. Publishers would still exist, they'd probably need to become alot more visible. In a world where everyone can copy for free, and the market is very saturated, a good publisher would be a name brand, helping the consumer sort through the jungle of free books. They'd offer their e-books for free to reach as big an audience as possible and earn their living selling off ads and assorted products. They'd still print books, but at a much less profit margin, they might make endorsement deals with the print a book companies, supplying specialized covers/editions, They'd have a much bigger marketing staff, as they'd be focused on how to spread the free books as wide as possible, through forums and potential fanbases. Also they'd be specialized in making accompagnying products and additional services and finding exactly what products their potential demographiic would be interested in having specialized. Thats just my idea of how it might look, of course we might kill off books and all be watching TV instead, it's all speculative at this point But seeing how alot of others are successfull offering their high quality products away for free, I've modelled my vision a bit on that.

05-15-2011, 06:37 AM	#74
K-Thom The one and only Posts: 3,302 Karma: 535819 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Berlin, Germany Device: yup!	This thread is still open? Will wonders never cease? People, get out, take a deeep breath of fresh air, cuddle a dog, visit a friend. But stop wasting your time here. Honestly. I'm concerned.

05-15-2011, 09:51 AM	#75
Giggleton Banned Posts: 1,687 Karma: 4368191 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: Oregon Device: Kindle3	The thing about thought experiments is that they are more than just thought experiments, how do you think our reality is shaped? I think the reviewers in this brave new world we are envisioning will be able to make more money than the creators That is if we end copyright before money becomes meaningless which I hope we do.

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