KDP Select - Page 2

apbschmitz · 12-10-2011, 09:28 PM

Okay, say you have a new novel and are about to publish it. And say that you put it up on Amazon's Select program for the first 90 days, then opt out of Select and publish it on Kindle standard, plus Smashwords, etc. Do you think there might be some exposure benefit in that, or does it still look like a loss? (Admittedly this overlooks the karmic cost of participating in Amazon's competition-crushing schemes.)

VydorScope · 12-10-2011, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apbschmitz

Okay, say you have a new novel and are about to publish it. And say that you put it up on Amazon's Select program for the first 90 days, then opt out of Select and publish it on Kindle standard, plus Smashwords, etc. Do you think there might be some exposure benefit in that, or does it still look like a loss? (Admittedly this overlooks the karmic cost of participating in Amazon's competition-crushing schemes.)

I see no real benefit to this program, and I see it as harmful to the ebook industry and indy authors (and by proxy customers) so I hope no one tries it (but I know some will be lured in by the fancy talk in the emails they sent).

So is there harm to you? Well first the first 90 days your book has limited reach and if you already have a fan base that is used to your books on their nook or whatever you alienate them... so yea I think it can hurt your early sales and possible upset your fans. A year or two later all would likely be forgotten/etc I am sure though. So in the long term impact to you might be tiny... just dont see the gain.

anamardoll · 12-10-2011, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by apbschmitz

Okay, say you have a new novel and are about to publish it. And say that you put it up on Amazon's Select program for the first 90 days, then opt out of Select and publish it on Kindle standard, plus Smashwords, etc. Do you think there might be some exposure benefit in that, or does it still look like a loss? (Admittedly this overlooks the karmic cost of participating in Amazon's competition-crushing schemes.)

I don't know how one opts out of the program or how it affects the stats of the book, but if it resets your numbers, reviews, or even Amazon-link, then that could be detrimental.

One assumes that Amazon has not implemented the technical details this way, but I really do not know. Three months is a long time to annoy customers and a short time to be discovered "cold" by new ones. I *highly* doubt you'll make a huge splash in the free/lending puddle in those 90 days in terms of getting new readers, but I can imagine you could easily lose a few B&N fanatics.

J. Strnad · 12-11-2011, 08:47 PM

I jumped at it.

I have virtually no sales through other outlets. I'm already 99% "exclusive" to Amazon for reasons that I do not know. I haven't sold a single book through Smashwords in the last year, while I've sold several thousand through Amazon. B&N: A handful. Kobo, Sony, Diesel: A handful at best. Apple iStore: Well, 1 that I know of.

Amazon and Smashwords are the only outlets that let me sell my book without DRM. Thanks to that, anyone who wants an epub version would actually do better ordering from Amazon and converting to epub with Calibre than ordering through B&N and getting a DRM-crippled version!

I'm not expecting a lot of income from KDP Select. Amazon's example assumes that your book accounts for 1.5% of all "borrows!" And in my case, how many people are going to use up their monthly "borrow" to save $2.99 when they could save three or four times that much on a more expensive, mainstream book?

But, I have virtually nothing to lose by going exclusively with Amazon for three months. If I weren't someone who was willing to roll the dice, I wouldn't be an indie publisher!

VydorScope · 12-11-2011, 09:07 PM

Actually you have a lot to potentially lose since you were once on Smashwords. The exclusive contract with Amazon states "distribution" and not "sale." Smashwords (and others) will continue to distribute your book to anyone that already bought it... for life. So you are potentially at risk of violating your contract already.

This also means you better not give any copies away via your own web site, or any other means. This includes print copies, special editions, and so on. The language can even be extended to refer to other books you write that are simular to the one you have with them.

Check out some of the links in this thread they cover the contract better then I can but the deal is harmful to the authors, and helps Amazon. Its a bad deal for anyone, IMO.

Wether or not Amazon chooses to enforce the full power given to them in their contract is another story and anyones guess until it happens. I personally think its a bad plan to given that power to begin with.

anamardoll · 12-11-2011, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VydorScope

Wether or not Amazon chooses to enforce the full power given to them in their contract is another story and anyones guess until it happens. I personally think its a bad plan to given that power to begin with.

And it looks like the contract is written so that Amazon can demand all their money back retroactively if they decide you're in breach.

VydorScope · 12-11-2011, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

And it looks like the contract is written so that Amazon can demand all their money back retroactively if they decide you're in breach.

Yep. It is a really bad deal for anyone.

Harper Kingsley · 12-11-2011, 11:31 PM

I read it differently. If you've already got stuff listed elsewhere, I wouldn't take them down to list them. But to take a brand new story and put it on there, you're just promising to be exclusive for 90 days. When the 90 days are almost up, you can choose not to renew the Kindle Select and it goes to being a normal book, then you can list your book elsewhere.

They're just trying to hit on being the first one to sell the digital copy of your book. You can keep selling print copies elsewhere. You just have to remember to click don't renew or whatever after the 90 days so you can then list on Smashwords or wherever.

Also, it looks like the 5 days free advertising, is them giving your book away for free for 5 days. During that time, your book is taken off the lending queue, which means you don't get any money during those 5 days.

It looks very interesting, but I don't think I like the exclusivity thing. Especially since the only people that can get it for a loan are the ones that have a registered Kindle. So if you use the computer version, you can't borrow it or nothing

anamardoll · 12-12-2011, 08:24 AM

But Harper, there's also a non-compete clause that seems to say while the book is in Kindle Select, you won't have anything for sale anywhere that could compete with your KDPS book. That's incredibly broad contract language and could be used to slam an author for books they'd published on B&N or wherever years before.

Mel Comley · 12-13-2011, 05:44 AM

Nope, no intention of signing up to this, I have great sales on B&N and the other outlets, why should I give that up? ;-)

theolightfoot · 12-17-2011, 12:21 AM

I plan to do it when I publish my novel in 2012. Right now I just have 2 illustrated children's books and iPad and Nook Color are good for those, whereas Amazon is just getting into the color game. I think it's a great idea for text-only books however and plan to do it. Anything for improved exposure.

VydorScope · 12-17-2011, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by theolightfoot

I plan to do it when I publish my novel in 2012. Right now I just have 2 illustrated children's books and iPad and Nook Color are good for those, whereas Amazon is just getting into the color game. I think it's a great idea for text-only books however and plan to do it. Anything for improved exposure.

But that is just it, it is REDUCED exposure, not improved. Its a horrible idea for Indy authors that can only hurt them in the long run.

dworth · 12-19-2011, 11:11 AM

I've had a think about this. I have no intention of putting my novels on KDP Select as it would be too much of a headache to withdraw them from the other outlets and I suspect I would see a drop in revenue. But:

It did occur to me that you could write a novella or short story and include it in the program and thus use it as a form of advertising. If people like your work, they might seek out more of your stuff.

John Carroll · 12-19-2011, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dworth

I've had a think about this. I have no intention of putting my novels on KDP Select as it would be too much of a headache to withdraw them from the other outlets and I suspect I would see a drop in revenue. But:

It did occur to me that you could write a novella or short story and include it in the program and thus use it as a form of advertising. If people like your work, they might seek out more of your stuff.

I think this is actually a really good idea, especially in the beginning stages of the program. It is another way to get your name out there.

rhadin · 12-19-2011, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anamardoll

And it looks like the contract is written so that Amazon can demand all their money back retroactively if they decide you're in breach.

Just remember the mantra: Amazon is my friend and will do me no harm (I hope).

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12-10-2011, 09:28 PM	#16
apbschmitz Lord of Frogtown Posts: 149 Karma: 1154748 Join Date: May 2011 Location: St. Paul MN Device: Kindle	Okay, say you have a new novel and are about to publish it. And say that you put it up on Amazon's Select program for the first 90 days, then opt out of Select and publish it on Kindle standard, plus Smashwords, etc. Do you think there might be some exposure benefit in that, or does it still look like a loss? (Admittedly this overlooks the karmic cost of participating in Amazon's competition-crushing schemes.)

12-11-2011, 08:47 PM	#19
J. Strnad Guru Posts: 915 Karma: 3537194 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Kobo, Kindle 3, Paperwhite	I jumped at it. I have virtually no sales through other outlets. I'm already 99% "exclusive" to Amazon for reasons that I do not know. I haven't sold a single book through Smashwords in the last year, while I've sold several thousand through Amazon. B&N: A handful. Kobo, Sony, Diesel: A handful at best. Apple iStore: Well, 1 that I know of. Amazon and Smashwords are the only outlets that let me sell my book without DRM. Thanks to that, anyone who wants an epub version would actually do better ordering from Amazon and converting to epub with Calibre than ordering through B&N and getting a DRM-crippled version! I'm not expecting a lot of income from KDP Select. Amazon's example assumes that your book accounts for 1.5% of all "borrows!" And in my case, how many people are going to use up their monthly "borrow" to save $2.99 when they could save three or four times that much on a more expensive, mainstream book? But, I have virtually nothing to lose by going exclusively with Amazon for three months. If I weren't someone who was willing to roll the dice, I wouldn't be an indie publisher!

12-11-2011, 09:07 PM	#20
VydorScope Wizard Posts: 3,418 Karma: 35207650 Join Date: Jun 2011 Device: iPad	Actually you have a lot to potentially lose since you were once on Smashwords. The exclusive contract with Amazon states "distribution" and not "sale." Smashwords (and others) will continue to distribute your book to anyone that already bought it... for life. So you are potentially at risk of violating your contract already. This also means you better not give any copies away via your own web site, or any other means. This includes print copies, special editions, and so on. The language can even be extended to refer to other books you write that are simular to the one you have with them. Check out some of the links in this thread they cover the contract better then I can but the deal is harmful to the authors, and helps Amazon. Its a bad deal for anyone, IMO. Wether or not Amazon chooses to enforce the full power given to them in their contract is another story and anyones guess until it happens. I personally think its a bad plan to given that power to begin with.

12-11-2011, 11:31 PM	#23
Harper Kingsley Clone Trooper Posts: 212 Karma: 4566103 Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Washington Device: kindle	I read it differently. If you've already got stuff listed elsewhere, I wouldn't take them down to list them. But to take a brand new story and put it on there, you're just promising to be exclusive for 90 days. When the 90 days are almost up, you can choose not to renew the Kindle Select and it goes to being a normal book, then you can list your book elsewhere. They're just trying to hit on being the first one to sell the digital copy of your book. You can keep selling print copies elsewhere. You just have to remember to click don't renew or whatever after the 90 days so you can then list on Smashwords or wherever. Also, it looks like the 5 days free advertising, is them giving your book away for free for 5 days. During that time, your book is taken off the lending queue, which means you don't get any money during those 5 days. It looks very interesting, but I don't think I like the exclusivity thing. Especially since the only people that can get it for a loan are the ones that have a registered Kindle. So if you use the computer version, you can't borrow it or nothing

12-12-2011, 08:24 AM	#24
anamardoll Chasing Butterflies Posts: 3,132 Karma: 5074169 Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: American Southwest Device: Uses batteries.	But Harper, there's also a non-compete clause that seems to say while the book is in Kindle Select, you won't have anything for sale anywhere that could compete with your KDPS book. That's incredibly broad contract language and could be used to slam an author for books they'd published on B&N or wherever years before.

12-13-2011, 05:44 AM	#25
Mel Comley Addict Posts: 318 Karma: 602031 Join Date: Nov 2010 Location: France Device: none	Nope, no intention of signing up to this, I have great sales on B&N and the other outlets, why should I give that up? ;-)

12-17-2011, 12:21 AM	#26
theolightfoot Junior Member Posts: 8 Karma: 10 Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Pac NW Device: iPad/Kindle Fire	I plan to do it when I publish my novel in 2012. Right now I just have 2 illustrated children's books and iPad and Nook Color are good for those, whereas Amazon is just getting into the color game. I think it's a great idea for text-only books however and plan to do it. Anything for improved exposure.

12-19-2011, 11:11 AM	#28
dworth Zealot Posts: 140 Karma: 2094632 Join Date: Jul 2010 Location: Bradford, UK Device: kindle pc	I've had a think about this. I have no intention of putting my novels on KDP Select as it would be too much of a headache to withdraw them from the other outlets and I suspect I would see a drop in revenue. But: It did occur to me that you could write a novella or short story and include it in the program and thus use it as a form of advertising. If people like your work, they might seek out more of your stuff.

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