Literary Nora Webster by Colm Tóibín

[Bookpossum]

Thanks bfisher and BelleZora. I always feel a certain amount of responsibility when the book chosen is my nomination, so it's good to know that for most of us, there were a number of things to admire in the book, even if not to enjoy.

I shall certainly be reading more of Colm Toibin. Did you see he has just been made Chancellor of Liverpool University?

[kansaskyle]

I picked up this book through one of my library memberships, and I'm on to Chapter 3.

As a middle-aged man, the first couple chapters were a little slow for me, but it is picking up now that Mrs. Webster is at work at Gibney's.

The part about...

Spoiler:

...dying her hair was kind of humorous. It is so common today that I wouldn't have given it any thought, but I guess in 1960's, small-town Ireland it was a bit unusual!

Reading about how Nora handles all the condolences in the opening chapters makes we wonder how we should comfort/reach out to someone that goes through a loss like she did. Do you think her views are reflective of how a widow feels when people come to express their condolences?

[bfisher]

Originally Posted by kansaskyle

Reading about how Nora handles all the condolences in the opening chapters makes we wonder how we should comfort/reach out to someone that goes through a loss like she did. Do you think her views are reflective of how a widow feels when people come to express their condolences?

You raise a good point. I've often wondered about how Mom felt after the well-wishers were gone after Dad's funeral. I'm thinking now about the possibility of the awful silence and the looming void, once the crowds were gone. Nora didn't seem to like the visitors. That may not be true for everyone.

[kansaskyle]

Originally Posted by bfisher

You raise a good point. I've often wondered about how Mom felt after the well-wishers were gone after Dad's funeral. I'm thinking now about the possibility of the awful silence and the looming void, once the crowds were gone. Nora didn't seem to like the visitors. That may not be true for everyone.

Agreed on Nora not liking the visitors. That is the part that got me wondering if that is true for her, or is that a general feeling for widows? The author definitely portrays Nora as not wanting to be around others.

[Bookpossum]

I suppose we all cope with grief and loss differently. I can empathise with Nora on this, as people seem to expect others to behave in a certain way, and it's hard enough coping with the thing itself without having to deal with others' needs or expectations.

I remember that when my father died of lung cancer, the main feeling was one of relief that it was over for him and for my mother. I was with her and I know she felt the same way. Other people clearly thought we should be in tears and wringing our hands.

[Bookworm_Girl]

I think it depends on the person. We all handle grief differently. There were two significant factors that would have made Nora feel like a fish in a fishbowl. The first is the small town environment where everybody knows everybody's business. Secondly, I think that the experience was magnified because her husband would have been widely known as a school teacher. His sphere of influence would have been greater through his students (and often the public figure is perceived differently than the personal figure within the family). It affected me when Donal was having difficulty at school because he felt like his father's presence was still there.

[kansaskyle]

I finished up the book this afternoon, and gave it a three-star rating.

It was interesting for me to see Nora's grief process, and her getting to live a little bit now that Maurice wasn't there to tell her no. I recall a story with my own Grandparents where my Grandmother would never wear anything red and purple because my Grandfather felt those were colors a "lady of the night" would wear. After he passed away, my Grandmother went out and bought a red and purple sweat suit that she wore to aerobics (she was in her late 80's at the time)!

I felt like Nora was a bit selfish at times with running off to her singing lessons, record club, drinking with her friend, etc., but maybe that is what she needed. I appreciate the insights shared on previous posts that this book is somewhat autobriographical of Colm Toibin's life growing up. I think that helps shed some light on Nora's actions.

What did you all think of the ending?

Spoiler:

I can understand getting rid of Maurice's old clothes, but I was a bit surprised Nora burned his letters. I would think she might want to keep some of his ties or things to pass on to his sons, and I would also think the letters might be something dear to her.

I guess by giving everything away and burning the letters, she is finally getting free of Maurice's presence in her life.

I could see her getting romantically involved again with someone especially since she bought her new dress and was putting on make-up. I didn't get the vibe she was trying to steal Fiona's boyfriend though, but it seemed important to Nora to feel pretty again.

[Bookpossum]

Hi kansaskyle and welcome to the Club!

My feeling about the ending was just that she was (as I think it said in the text in connection with her music) moving away from Maurice and being herself rather than his wife and then his widow. I think she just wanted to feel attractive for herself, rather than for someone else.

[bfisher]

Originally Posted by Bookpossum

Hi kansaskyle and welcome to the Club!

My feeling about the ending was just that she was (as I think it said in the text in connection with her music) moving away from Maurice and being herself rather than his wife and then his widow. I think she just wanted to feel attractive for herself, rather than for someone else.

There is that interesting bit with Fiona's suitor; I thought the author did a great job with that.

"On those nights when Paul and Fiona eventually left together to go to a lounge bar or a dance, Nora found herself sitting alone almost content. She had enjoyed his company and it was clear, she saw, that he had enjoyed talking to her too."

Then she buys a new dress and decides to wear it at home: "Having put it on, she sat at the mirror and brushed her hair and looked through her make-up bag, finding a light mascara and a black eye-liner. When she heard a car, she went to the window to see who it was and, on seeing it was just two of the neighbours, she went downstairs and made herself a cup of tea and put on some music."

That's when Fiona decides that Paul won't be visiting the house anymore.

[sun surfer]

I enjoyed this book very much (I gave it a 5-star rating on Goodreads). I actually prefer this to The Master. While The Master is equally well-written and the events perhaps more grandiose and involving, I felt that Nora Webster had more the ring of truth; not the vague truth of imagining something else well but the deep truth of knowing something so well.

I also so enjoyed this trip to '60s/'70s small-town southern Ireland. I felt immersed and aside from Nora herself I was just interested in finding out more and more about the town and the people. I didn't want to 'leave' when the book was over.

As well, I feel lucky to have listened to the audiobook narrated by Shaw; she was one of the very best audiobook narrators I've listened to and I thought did very well with the challenging characters. It was a delight.

Reading through the thread, there's so many great posts and analysis and so much I want to respond to but for now I'll suffice with the first post I came across that I wanted to respond to.

Originally Posted by issybird

I'm not one who cares about to what extent characters are likeable or I can warm to them, but that said, I was irritated not by Nora in her grief, but by the devices in the storyline. Her passivity was understandable, but unlike Eilis in Brooklyn, there were no negative consequences for Nora. Everything went her way. She needed to sell the beach cottage? A buyer walked in the door. She needed a job, with 20-year old qualifications? Ditto. When she disliked said job? She got to work half-time and avoid the manager she detested. The private room at no charge on holiday, the free singing lessons, everyone in town, it seemed, falling over themselves to help her - it got tiresome. Her only setback was the botched audition.

I agree that most everything went her way, but I don't think it unrealistic. Sometimes that's just the way it goes for someone, especially a more or less likeable and attractive recent widow that a town is rallying around to help. I for one thought she shouldn't have sold the beach cottage at all anyway as she had enough money otherwise so I thought a buyer showing up so fast was more of a hindrance as it goaded her to sell before she could really think it through a bit more.

I think the nun character whom you didn't even mention strained my credulity the most. I actually wondered for a little while if she was a figment of Nora's imagination. She seemed to be some kind of sporadic guardian angel.

Really though, I think this boils down to who Nora is and the way the world views her. She must have a sympathetic face and be one of those people who give off a strong aura of needing help. I've seen it before in real life, and I think in a past time such as when this was set the urge to help from others would've been even more pronounced, for a woman anyway.

As for the job, yes it was a job and she needed one, but she wasn't happy with it. We could debate whether that's ungrateful or not but it didn't feel to me like she just got what she wanted with that. Imagine having to go back to a job you'd left decades ago that you hated because it was all you could get (regardless of the reason why you're getting it). I imagine it would feel terrible and regressive and she had to do that while dealing with such grief.

Poor Donal, of course was another story as he suffered lasting damage; Nora's inability to exert herself to help him was unsettling, even as she was able to act for Conor. Her abandonment of the boys as their father was dying was chilling; if I were going to dislike Nora, that in itself would have provided the justification.

Nora, in my mind, wasn't meant to be likeable. Nor was she meant to be detestable. She was just meant to be, faults and shortcomings and luck and all. She felt very real to me, and it's funny because at first I wasn't sure she'd be real enough as she seems a bit overly saintly in the very beginning. I feel like the genius or strength of the novel is that Tóibín paints such a fantastic portrait of a real person and a real town, even if Nora Webster is fiction. It's too bad you didn't like it more but well, we all can't like everything!

[kansaskyle]

I'm glad you enjoyed the book!

Originally Posted by sun surfer

I think the nun character whom you didn't even mention strained my credulity the most. I actually wondered for a little while if she was a figment of Nora's imagination. She seemed to be some kind of sporadic guardian angel.

Sister Thomas seemed real to me given the small town life, the town is predominantly Catholic, she is old, and she likely has seen these people all their life. I liked how she got involved as a "sporadic guardian angel, and I think she would potentially watch over people and help out.

[AnotherCat]

@Sun Surfer - I think that is pretty much how I saw it too.

I also saw Nora as being honest, with others and with herself, and with no more faults than most of us have.

Perhaps I am biased in my conclusion because compared to many of the spitting, biting, punching, lying, manipulative, vindictive self entitled men and women I have had to deal with, mostly amongst the likes of unionists and activists, she was an angel without fault .

Regarding the nun, I felt that she knew and had guidance to give for too much, that for me stretched the bounds of credibility unless one was of the persuasion to grant her as having the guidance of some superior being (which I am not able to grant so found her a weakish character).

I have bought a copy of The Master, when I ever get to read it I do not know as my reading pile is too high, but I figured that it is more likely to get read if I have a copy than if not :-).

[fantasyfan]

Nora Webster is an example of what Forster called a "character" novel. As such it isn't my favourite type of work. Still, it has moments of illumination which can be quite powerful. One such that stayed with me is the time Nora and her sons were watching Gaslight. This incident dramatised a bonding moment that was quite moving. And, as I stated earlier, the dialogue was astonishingly vivid.

I gave it three stars on Goodreads.