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Old 08-28-2018, 06:22 PM   #1
armanleftarm
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Smile Newbie question: Onyx Boox Max 2 used primarily as SOLE monitor

Hey everybody,

I've got distraction/device addiction issues and in the past switching to EPD displays has helped me resolve this (in the case of a phone). Much of my computer workflow is on Linux, vim, LaTeX, and coding, and just about everything else requiring colour is not necessary.

I've read through many pages of the thread here, Onyx Boox as a monitor. But many are people talking about Max Carta and VNCing over USB, or problems that have come up but were erroneous (eg having redshift/flux enabled), etc. So it's a bit much to navigate and doesn't answer questions for the owner-to-be.

There's a YouTube user (that is a user here I believe) by the name of MD P, who claims to do much the same as I'm intending, using the Onyx Boox Max 2 as a sole/primary monitor for the same purposes: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=idjhuxzjD5Q&t=72s

I've thought about Dasung, but it's more expensive, and the slightly higher framerate doesn't justify the loss of ereader/tablet capability and I've heard the glass screen (with included 'anti-glare' film) is a bad design feature.

I'm really set on stowing away my desktop monitor, laptop and going exclusively EPD through HDMI for (i) my desktop and (ii) as a laptop when combined with a in-keyboard all-in-one pc.

I'm not concerned about the cursor framerate because I use i3 window-manager (so I usually get around with keyboard hotkeys, minimal-to-no mouse usage).

For people that have experience with extended use of Onyx Boox Max 2 primarily as a monitor, what should I know going in? What's the expected battery life when used in this manner? Will the screen quality dither with time if I do more refresh-demanding applications like video?

Last edited by armanleftarm; 08-28-2018 at 07:27 PM.
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Old 08-29-2018, 03:45 AM   #2
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Just a few quick notes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by armanleftarm View Post
I've read through many pages of the thread here, Onyx Boox as a monitor. But many are people talking about Max Carta and VNCing over USB
Old devices because the idea is old and the thread developed in time, remote desktop technologies because they work on many more devices and are the foremost traditional way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armanleftarm View Post
by the name of MDP, who claims to do much the same as I'm intending
(The space is not there... I am not a medical doctor.)
Outdoors. You do not bring an LCD-like technology out to fight with environmental light, right? (Well, yes, if pushed, but really.) Plus, if you contemplate a lot - text -, EPD is made for that (bistable).

Quote:
Originally Posted by armanleftarm View Post
I've thought about Dasung, but it's more expensive, and the slightly higher framerate doesn't justify the loss of ereader/tablet capability and I've heard the glass screen (with included 'anti-glare' film) is a bad design feature

I'm not concerned about the cursor framerate because I use i3 window-manager (so I usually get around with keyboard hotkeys, minimal-to-no mouse usage)
And where have you found reliable information that the Dasung has higher framerate? Can we see the numbers?
A priori, for Dasung to have an increased framerate, they should have devised a special waveform. That is something one would advertise in detail.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armanleftarm View Post
I'm not concerned about the cursor framerate because I use i3 window-manager (so I usually get around with keyboard hotkeys, minimal-to-no mouse usage)
Mouse cursor framerate may not necessarily be a strong hindrance, you can get used to it. Plus, there are ways to use the touchscreen.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armanleftarm View Post
For people that have experience with extended use of Onyx Boox Max 2 primarily as a monitor, what should I know going in? What's the expected battery life when used in this manner? Will the screen quality dither with time if I do more refresh-demanding applications like video?
The resolution of the Onyx Monitor app is smaller (say 90%) than that of the display: Android software will be crisper, and the graphics coming from the HDMI softened, damp.
Battery consumption values appear as strongly inefficient (say 5 hrs of moderate use) - but you will probably keep the USB cable, hence charging, connected, also because e.g. of touchscreen functions.
EPD screens have a lifetime in dot-switches, but rough calculations show them as acceptable.

Although not a wiki, which may come as people will find the time, I still do recommend that you skim through the 40 pages of the thread. Maybe start when the Max2 related pieces of information start to appear.

Last edited by mdp; 08-30-2018 at 01:03 PM.
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Old 08-30-2018, 03:21 PM   #3
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For your Linux usage maybe you should try HTML5?

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/09/gtk-3...l5-allows.html

The HDMI input does not work perfectly as you may wish. The display text is often not black and white which cause loss of contrast. Plus there's no efficient font dithering as the HDMI driver knows nothing but the pixels...

With the HTML5 output the browser would actually render fonts which should yield much better results
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:09 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plusz View Post
For your Linux usage maybe you should try HTML5?

http://www.webupd8.org/2011/09/gtk-3...l5-allows.html

The HDMI input does not work perfectly as you may wish. The display text is often not black and white which cause loss of contrast. Plus there's no efficient font dithering as the HDMI driver knows nothing but the pixels...

With the HTML5 output the browser would actually render fonts which should yield much better results
That's neat to know thank you, but not useful for me as I use almost no GTK applications.

As for fonts/display crispness, I'm not too concerned because I will modify the entire user profile specifically for output to the Onyx Boox Max 2 and since I won't be using any other display, I won't have the same issues as others who oscillate between colour display -> boox (or who use boox as a secondary monitor).
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Old 08-30-2018, 08:12 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mdp View Post
Just a few quick notes:



Old devices because the idea is old and the thread developed in time, remote desktop technologies because they work on many more devices and are the foremost traditional way.



(The space is not there... I am not a medical doctor.)
Outdoors. You do not bring an LCD-like technology out to fight with environmental light, right? (Well, yes, if pushed, but really.) Plus, if you contemplate a lot - text -, EPD is made for that (bistable).



And where have you found reliable information that the Dasung has higher framerate? Can we see the numbers?
A priori, for Dasung to have an increased framerate, they should have devised a special waveform. That is something one would advertise in detail.



Mouse cursor framerate may not necessarily be a strong hindrance, you can get used to it. Plus, there are ways to use the touchscreen.



The resolution of the Onyx Monitor app is smaller (say 90%) than that of the display: Android software will be crisper, and the graphics coming from the HDMI softened, damp.
Battery consumption values appear as strongly inefficient (say 5 hrs of moderate use) - but you will probably keep the USB cable, hence charging, connected, also because e.g. of touchscreen functions.
EPD screens have a lifetime in dot-switches, but rough calculations show them as acceptable.

Although not a wiki, which may come as people will find the time, I still do recommend that you skim through the 40 pages of the thread. Maybe start when the Max2 related pieces of information start to appear.
Thank you for your reply. I was under the impression you use it as your sole monitor from one of your YouTube replies, but only when you are outdoors, then? I see it now, you are using a laptop, and the screen is being mirrored(?) to your Onyx Boox.

I think I have a slight advantage in using it as my SOLE monitor (in/outdoors) because my linux user profile would be set up specifically for (and only for) the boox max 2. Therefore I may not come to realize the resolution problems others are explaining.

My needs are minimal: i3 wm, vim, LaTeX, browser.. I think I'll be fine with modifying xprofile, vimrc, terminal config, etc
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Last edited by armanleftarm; 08-30-2018 at 08:51 PM.
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Old 08-31-2018, 12:51 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by armanleftarm View Post
only when you are outdoors, then?
I do not only work at daytime, and I do not only use software that works well on EPD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by armanleftarm View Post
I think I have a slight advantage in using it as my SOLE monitor (in/outdoors) because my linux user profile would be set up specifically for (and only for) the boox max 2. Therefore I may not come to realize the resolution problems others are explaining.

My needs are minimal: i3 wm, vim, LaTeX, browser.. I think I'll be fine with modifying xprofile, vimrc, terminal config, etc
In fact, a user using more display technologies would create more users (profiles), I guess. I did.

The resolution problem: I am not sure what you are referring to, but if it is what I wrote: if the tablet is 2200x1650, and the source 2104x1560, the rendering can't be crisp, right? Enlargement does not do a Lanczois or similar on-the-fly! That is independent from how you set your profile. EPD is meant to be optimal for the eyes: if you dampen the screen contents...
You can probably set a 1:1 resolution match with remote desktop technologies.

Anyway, it would be nice if you tried the experience (which also means attempting achieving optimal configuration), and reported.

Last edited by mdp; 08-31-2018 at 01:20 AM.
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Old 09-02-2018, 06:18 AM   #7
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I use my Max2 mostly with ssh and termux to remotely connect to my systems. Works pretty well. Termux has many comfort options and with wakelock held you can even set up cronjobs and such and they work pretty reliably, basically building a small linux enviroment. It isn't perfect but works. Also you don't need root, which I didn't really find a clean way I feel safe with to get with this device.

If you stay in the console and text-only, you work around a lot of problems the refresh rate of the screen brings. There is lots and lots of programs out there to make that stay comfortable. Hell, with rtv there's even a text-only reddit-browser that works a lot better on this screen than the various android ones. If you want to let the tablet on the internet, that is.

I first was a bit critical of the SoC (RK3288) in this system, but it's actually pretty good. I got an ASUS tinker board (which has the same SoC) to experiment a little with it. (and also find a way to turn the battery charging off when connected to USB, the Tinker Board has the same power management chip and it only cost 70 bucks so I feel a lot less queasy to poke around in it's power settings) Not really all that slow at all for linux after some experimenting. I am from the emacs camp and run it locally, it works perfectly fine, even with more intensive stuff like flycheck and such.

When you are on the go (at home or outside) a good trick to get network connectivity and still don't rely on the power-hungry wifi is to do bluetooth tethering with your smartphone. It's not as fast as WiFi but for ssh/mosh sessions it's more than good enough.

So tl;dr, my experience and advice is to forego X and stay in the console, works very well on this device, no additional computer to do the heavy lifting even really needed if you work with it's restrictions. Also find the terminfo file for "xterm-mono" and add it to termux, notifies your ncurses apps and such that your screen is monochrome and you get a nice black/white. Works really well with most console programs. No screwing around with color palettes needed. Also you can use your finger and/or the stylus to click on stuff in the terminal for programs that support it, which is also nice.

EDIT: Hell, if you can get used to monochrome and use that xterm-mono file, you can even play terminal-based games on it. Catacylsm-DDA (rogue like survival-game) works fine. You can stab tiles with your Stylus to path to them, which is incredibly cool. You could probably play games like dwarf fortress the same way. I had Cataclysm once compiled on a Raspberry Pi 2 and played it there and it was fast enough to play. I'm sure if I can get a build environment set up in Termux (if possible) I could compile it for this chip and run it locally without restrictions.

Last edited by elementarythree; 09-02-2018 at 06:37 AM.
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Old 09-04-2018, 06:03 AM   #8
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I went through the thread "Onyx boox as a monitor" and tried the Monitor_MOD1.apk. Awesome work by @mdp.

I thought that the poor quality and ghosting is due to the HDMI chip, nothing could be further from the truth. Onyx made a bad job selecting poor EPD mode without providing any way to change it.

Last edited by plusz; 01-04-2019 at 12:57 PM. Reason: changing monitor_mod2 to monitor_mod1
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Old 12-30-2018, 05:42 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by plusz View Post
I went through the thread "Onyx boox as a monitor" and tried the Monitor_MOD2.apk. Awesome work by @mdp.

I thought that the poor quality and ghosting is due to the HDMI chip, nothing could be further from the truth. Onyx made a bad job selecting poor EPD mode without providing any way to change it.
Hi,
Searched for Monitor_MOD2.apk and couldn't find it...Am I missinf something?

Thanks
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Old 01-04-2019, 12:54 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amiayu View Post
Hi,
Searched for Monitor_MOD2.apk and couldn't find it...Am I missinf something?

Thanks
I guess it was a mistake in the post above yours. @mdp shared a modified version of the monitor app, then a second version named moniotr_mod1
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Old 01-06-2019, 01:43 PM   #11
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I use the Max 2 as a PC monitor for word processing and browsing. I'm not a coder so have no idea if this would work for that field. As a monitor the Max 2 is serviceable but not entirely ideal. The most annoying thing is the slow mouse movement. But it's just about tolerable. I changed my desktop to a white solid colour and text to black so it's easier to see. Some lighter coloured icons like windows folders needed to be changed to darker icons. Basically, anything that's too light will be hard to see on a light background and visa versa with darker objects. Therefore the less busy the screen the better. It's possible to crank up the contrast of the monitor app as well as on the computer until the desired balance is reached. If you don't want to use an LED screen due to eye trouble then you have few options except the Max 2. You can either wait until technology comes up with a different solution or get the Max 2. The choice is as basic as that atm. No amount of forum posts or probing questions will resolve that conundrum unfortunately. It's a pity we can't go down to our local tech shop and trail the Max 2 but that's not possible in most cases.
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Old 01-07-2019, 04:02 PM   #12
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I agree, the mouse movements is the most visible pitfall.

I have an idea how to fix it, which I hope I may actually make it happen one day. Have you ever tried magnifying the desktop beyond the screen resolution on Mac (possibly it's the same thing on Windows)? The screen follows the input point, mouse movements. I imagine having a small passive black&white LCD, like 3 - 5 inch, put above or under the Max forming this kind of loupe. This way it would be easy to enter text quickly or navigate the mouse whilst having the nice bigger eInk screen to see everything. I actually already have some RaspberryPi board and a 3 inch passive LCD module for it, the rest is to develop the VNC client for it which would behave like a loupe always following the input point at the center of the screen.
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Old 01-12-2019, 02:39 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spectralis
slow mouse movement
Use the touchscreen (hack or, more easily and professionally, VNC).
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Old 03-20-2019, 04:30 PM   #14
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Use the touchscreen (hack or, more easily and professionally, VNC).
I'd like to use your monitor mods but I can't find them and don't know which one is the best for my needs. I searched through that huge monitor thread but got lost. It would be great if there was a locked thread where Max 2 mods (with a brief explanation) could be found.

I'm using Win10 home which doesn't support VNC apparently. I'd need to upgrade to the pro version I think.

I'm a writer and not a tech expert so switching to Linux or programming anything too complicated is beyond me. I suspect that a number of people who want to use the Max 2 as a eye-friendly monitor are not exceptionally tech savvy like me.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:47 AM   #15
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Have you tried spacedesk? I use it with my win7. laptops and max. 2 pro. I can use my wacom pen or touch to scroll or navigate.
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