ISBN vs Versions

[SigilBear]

I just learned that an ISBN number isn't an option for me - iBooks requires an ISBN.

So here's my question: If I create an epub file, then convert that same file to both Kindle format and iBooks format, would I be able to put that same ISBN # on both books? In other words, would the Kindle book and iBooks version both be considered the same version?

[Cinisajoy]

Well now, I just went to the iTunes website.
http://www.apple.com/itunes/working-.../book-faq.html
Does recommended mean required?
Actually it says recommended not required.

If you want one, here is the link to the Bowker site.
https://www.myidentifiers.com
They are not cheap.

Now for anyone else reading this: it is always best to go to the source rather than Henry's blog.

[SigilBear]

Well now, before posting I visited another page on Apple's site that said just the opposite - an ISBN is required.

But the question is really mute, because even if an ISBN is merely RECOMMENDED, I'm going to get one. So my original question still stands: If I get an ISBN for a book I'm selling via iBooks, can I slap the same ISBN on the Kindle version of the same book.

In other news, it appears that there may be some ebook sellers that DO require ISBN's.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

I just learned that an ISBN number isn't an option for me - iBooks requires an ISBN.

So here's my question: If I create an epub file, then convert that same file to both Kindle format and iBooks format, would I be able to put that same ISBN # on both books? In other words, would the Kindle book and iBooks version both be considered the same version?

Oh and I think the answer is no, since I know paper and hardback require two different ISBN numbers and Amazon and iBooks are different formats. But don't quote me on this.

Oh and if you go through Createspace for the paperback, they can provide the ISBN for that.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

Well now, before posting I visited another page on Apple's site that said just the opposite - an ISBN is required.

But the question is really mute, because even if an ISBN is merely RECOMMENDED, I'm going to get one. So my original question still stands: If I get an ISBN for a book I'm selling via iBooks, can I slap the same ISBN on the Kindle version of the same book.

In other news, it appears that there may be some ebook sellers that DO require ISBN's.

In that case, they start at $125.

[Cinisajoy]

And a quick Google search says probably not on your question.

[SigilBear]

P.S. I just made an interesting discovery. A number of people on these forums have said ISBN's on ebups are pointless. They certainly aren't required if you're selling an ebook via your personal website.

However, I just discovered that an ISBN is apparently required if you want to get a Library of Congress number - link. The Library of Congress number appears to be free, though obtaining one can apparently be a pain.

[Cinisajoy]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

P.S. I just made an interesting discovery. A number of people on these forums have said ISBN's on ebups are pointless. They certainly aren't required if you're selling an ebook via your personal website.

However, I just discovered that an ISBN is apparently required if you want to get a Library of Congress number - link. The Library of Congress number appears to be free, though obtaining one can apparently be a pain.

Here is an idea. I think the LOC also requires a physical book but that may have changed in the last couple of years.
You need an ISBN and a paper book (which is nice anyway), go through createspace and get both at once. I just googled that and promptly got lost at loc.gov

[Krazykiwi]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

But the question is really mute, because even if an ISBN is merely RECOMMENDED, I'm going to get one. So my original question still stands: If I get an ISBN for a book I'm selling via iBooks, can I slap the same ISBN on the Kindle version of the same book.

Kindle books sold through Amazon do not use an ISBN. It would be wasted. Amazon uses ASIN's on their website, and one is assigned when the book is put up for sale.

The ISBN rules are very clear: One ISBN for each version in each *format* and each DRM setting. Kindle books are Mobi/AZW3/Kfx, Itunes books are epubs.

If you sell the epub elsewhere, and use the same DRM settings (for instance, none) you can use the same ISBN. If instead, you have an epub that allows printing, and one that doesn't, they need different ISBN's because those are different DRM settings.

You will need another ISBN for any paperback (another format), pdf (another format) or hardcover (another format) book you issue.

If you sell the mobi/kindle edition directly from your own website, you could (but don't have to) use an ISBN on that too.

If you translate the book, and sell it in pdf, paperback, epub and kindle editions, that's another 3 ISBN's (one for each format that needs one).

Every time you update a format that needs an ISBN with new content, that is a new edition. It needs a new ISBN. Republishing with the same content is a reprint, and doesn't.

https://www.isbn-international.org/c...sbn-assignment read the section "When to assign a new ISBN"

(ETA: All of this is moot if you are only selling it from your own website. You don't need an ISBN to put up a file on your website. Some stores, for instance B&N will also accept books without ISBN's if they are published directly there, and not through D2D or Smashwords, they'll assign it a "fake" 13 digit identifier from their own scheme instead.)

[Krazykiwi]

Sorry to follow myself up.

You mention wanting to get into libraries: This is almost impossible for an indie-published ebook, because libraries use 3M or Overdrive, and good luck getting into their catalogues. It's technically possible, but in reality, most librarians can't see those books: http://the-digital-reader.com/2014/0...theyre-ghetto/ (article is a couple of years old, but nothing has changed in that situation.)

If you want to be on the shelves in a library, you'll need to provide POD paperback at least, possibly even hardcover, and provide extended distribution via whoever you get to do that so that you even show up in the catalogues that librarians purchase from.

Also, with a reference boko, you'll want to seriously consider getting a CIP in the frontmatter. Librarians are time-pressed, budget-driven, and overworked. If you don't have a CIP, the book needs hand cataloguing, and it'll go on a pile in a corner until someone gets to it, but with a CIP it's a much easier job.

https://www.loc.gov/publish/cip/techinfo/cipdata.html

If your book is in the LOC, they do it for you, if not you'll have to get a professional to do that part. Almost everyone I know uses Quality Books for that, and it costs $100 (http://www.quality-books.com/pcip.htm) but I expect there are other cataloguers around.

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by Krazykiwi

Sorry to follow myself up.

You mention wanting to get into libraries.

Yes, I've already learned that libraries are tough to get into. It's still one of my long range goals, though I'll have to jump through a number of hoops.

Thanks for all the tips about ISBN numbers. What a racket! They make you get a new ISBN for every version and format at over $100 per ISBN!

I think I'm going to choose a "master" version to submit to the Library of Congress and buy an ISBN for it, then publish any other versions without an ISBN. I kind of prefer iBooks because they allow you to copy text and write notes - really handy for studying books. So I'll probably slap an ISBN on an iBooks version and submit it to the Library of Congress, then let Amazon use its ASIN number on the Kindle version.

Thanks again.

[wyvern]

Just for information - the first ISBN is $125 but that is because they also register you as a publisher. It's more economical to buy a batch of 10 for $295 which includes the benefits of one - I'm in the UK where we buy from Nielsen's but they certainly operate in that way, so you should be set up as a publisher as part of buying the 10 and it certainly implies that on their page - https://www.myidentifiers.com/get-your-isbn-now - though you probably should just confirm that with them.

[SigilBear]

Originally Posted by wyvern

Just for information - the first ISBN is $125...

Thanks for the tips.

Wow, it's amazing how complex/convoluted this stuff is! I just found an ISBN dealer that sells ISBN's for just $29 apiece, but I checked them out and, sure enough, they're only semi-legitimate.

I'm going to publish several books, so I don't mind buying a block of ISBN's - if I decided to use them. As mentioned elsewhere in this thread (or another thread), neither Amazon no Apple require them, but they are recommended for iBooks, for some reason or other.

So I'll probably get an ISBN and a pseudo-CIP from Quality Books, if only as a learning experience.

[Cinisajoy]

If you are in the US: Bowkers is the only legitimate site.
Oh and welcome back.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by SigilBear

Well now, before posting I visited another page on Apple's site that said just the opposite - an ISBN is required.

But the question is really mute, because even if an ISBN is merely RECOMMENDED, I'm going to get one. So my original question still stands: If I get an ISBN for a book I'm selling via iBooks, can I slap the same ISBN on the Kindle version of the same book.

In other news, it appears that there may be some ebook sellers that DO require ISBN's.

People seem to struggle so much with the ISBN question that we are in the middle of creating an interactive answer-bot, for the FAQ on my site, to help people with it.

Firstly, Lulu isn't really a "seller of eBooks." Like Smashwords, BookBaby, InscribeDigital, Ingram, etc., they are simply a distributor. In this day and age, for digital books, that really amounts to "publisher." And thus, you understand why they require an ISBN (theirs, mind you)--because they distribute (publish) books to myriad retailers, and their fees are paid on ISBNs. (As are their uploads via FTP, in which books are identified as 123456789.isbn, and so forth.)

Bowker has recently taken to selling a product that they specifically call an "eBook ISBN." not to be confused with the "old" eBook ISBN, or the ePUB ISBN, etc. I think that they took this step simply because none of the retailers (that actually have any volume worth thinking about) require them. iBooks absolutely doesn't require ISBNs, not unless that's changed in the last few weeks. They used to--but they haven't in years. Nor does B&N, Amazon, and last time I looked, KoboBooks, but I'm not positive about KoboBooks any longer.

And, of course, it's utterly unneeded. What's the entire purpose of an ISBN? It's simply this: Ordering, fulfillment, and payment. That's the only reason that they exist. The entity that owns the ISBN, owns the rights (to that edition), and gets paid for it. Therefore, for eBooks, there's no point. There's no ordering, away from the retailer; there's no fulfillment, in the sense that there is with physical books, and no payment collected by the distributor that is then transmitted to the publisher.

In an eBook environment, of course, none of that is needed. There's no ordering from a distribution warehouse; the bookstore doesn't pay the distributor, who in turn pays the publisher, etc. It's all the same. The publisher uploads it directly to the retailer, and that's all she wrote.

Good luck.

Hitch