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Old 08-11-2017, 03:25 PM   #61
HarryT
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The only time it is OK to condemn a book without reading, is if it is in support of something appalling. Like, I think it is ok to reject a book by David Duke without reading it, since it is apparent most of his books are racist in nature.
There's a major difference, though, between condemnation of a book, and trying to ensure that nobody is allowed to read it. It's one thing to try to convince other people that your opinion of a book is valid: that's healthy debate. It's another thing entirely to pressurise a publisher not to publish a book that you personally find offensive: that's attempting to forcibly impose your moral standards on others.
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Old 08-11-2017, 03:53 PM   #62
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It isn't okay to write a review for a book you haven't read.
Sure it is.
As long as your review only covers that which you did.review:

" I hated the cover because..."
"The book was poorly assembled and fell apart before I got to the 'Title page"
"There were 5 typos/spelling errors in the Prologue. Why continue to read?"
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:06 PM   #63
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Please reread my post. Is Anti-Amazon #1 against the law and two is it for titillating purposes? If the answer is no, then the subject is ok.

In theory, the only genre that should be affected is erotica. If the authors tried to put their smut (for lack of a better term) where it belonged, Amazon would kick it out before it ever got put out for sale. Yes, they do check that genre before letting a book go on sale. To make sure it doesn't violate the terms of service which are for that part in plain and very simple English.

In reality, the smut peddlers know this and so they purposely miscategorize to get their "books" on Amazon. This in turn gets people outraged for more than one reason.

Just wanted to add there are other booksellers that have no problems with selling those types of books.
There is a difference between not carrying a book because of legal liability or it violates your guide lines and not carrying it because you think it may hurt your business. As I said, Amazon is free to choose not to carry any book they choose not to.

I think that most smut peddlers miscategorize because they are gaming the system to put their book titles in front of more eyes rather than to avoid potential censorship by Amazon. It's a bit like sending out spam, the more eyes that see it, the more likely you are to pick up a sale or two.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:20 PM   #64
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What's all this about mobs worshiping David Lynch? When did Lynch start writing young adult novels and what are they like? Are the illustrations by the late Francis Bacon's floating pastrami exorcist?

Last edited by Prestidigitweeze; 08-11-2017 at 04:33 PM. Reason: Naked compulsion.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:33 PM   #65
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Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
There is a difference between not carrying a book because of legal liability or it violates your guide lines and not carrying it because you think it may hurt your business. As I said, Amazon is free to choose not to carry any book they choose not to.

I think that most smut peddlers miscategorize because they are gaming the system to put their book titles in front of more eyes rather than to avoid potential censorship by Amazon. It's a bit like sending out spam, the more eyes that see it, the more likely you are to pick up a sale or two.
You are 100% correct about the gaming.

Is it really censorship if the person knows that Amazon doesn't sell that type of reading material? They are certainly free to sell elsewhere.
I know one erotic writer that puts out 3 different versions of the same story. He categorizes correctly. He puts his Amazon allowed on Amazon. He puts the not Amazon allowed on other book sellers. Different partners.
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Old 08-11-2017, 04:37 PM   #66
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Meanwhile, I've been reading Ian Brady's The Gates of Janus. What if someone confected a young adult novel out of that? I can see the applauding emoticons even now.

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Old 08-11-2017, 05:38 PM   #67
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Yes, I condemn all romance novels. Romance is not a legitimate genre.

Tubemonkey, you are lacking the love.

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Old 08-11-2017, 05:41 PM   #68
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Tubemonkey, you are lacking the love.
Dinosaur sock monkey love. Now there is a match made in heaven. Quick someone write a book. It is sure to be a best seller and spawn knock offs.
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:47 PM   #69
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We went two different places but I love your examples much better than mine.
IIRC: In some places, Playboy or Hustler were outlawed completely by city ordinances.
Other places only certain stores could carry them. Even in the late 80's, they had to be sealed in plastic so kids couldn't read them. The hard core books and magazines had to be sold in adult book stores. (One industry the Internet has almost if not completely put out of business. )
They have to be sealed in plastic here when sold as well. Usually the top is clear (to show the title) and the rest is black plastic.
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Old 08-11-2017, 05:57 PM   #70
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They have to be sealed in plastic here when sold as well. Usually the top is clear (to show the title) and the rest is black plastic.
Next time I am in a convenience store, I will have to look at a magazine rack. I was thinking clear plastic back then. This was in Lincoln Ne. Made a nice sound to catch the wannabe readers not buyers. When busy, yelling across the store, "you open it, you buy it" caused many to go someplace where the clerk didn't have a birds eye view of the magazine rack.
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:00 PM   #71
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There's a major difference, though, between condemnation of a book, and trying to ensure that nobody is allowed to read it. It's one thing to try to convince other people that your opinion of a book is valid: that's healthy debate. It's another thing entirely to pressurise a publisher not to publish a book that you personally find offensive: that's attempting to forcibly impose your moral standards on others.
True enough. The former is just stating your opinion of the book while the latter would be an overt act of censorship. I may not like a particular book and express my right to my opinion on why book x is badly written or has wooden characters etc. and that is my right as a reader. But if I tried to get author x's books banned for whatever reason then I'm trying to foist my views of the world on others and am treading on their rights. That's not to say that some haven't tried with this or that book. There are many books that have been banned by this or that group over the years. I think it can be argued that while most books value is a matter of personal opinion that there are some that should not be written. The book I mentioned in my first post being a case in point. I don't know what became of the 'author' of that book. If he was ever brought to trial or anything but such a book has no redeeming qualities I don't think. I mean there are books on poisons, firearms etc. that people buy for reference purposes (such as if they are writing a novel) and they have some value as such aids but a book on how to molest kids has no such redeeming value attached to it and you don't (I think) need to have read it to know that for a fact. On the other hand I remember seeing a book posted at Amazon titled "Jesus shaves." I don't recall how it came up in book searches. Anyway I may be offended by it as it uses a key figure of Christianity in a way that I find abhorrent, but I realize that my view of said book is based largely on my moral code and Christian belief. Other not of my faith may not be so offended. So it's more a personal choice in that case. I can voice my opinion here and to Amazon about it but as long as said book doesn't break any laws (though some would argue it should) then it does come down to choice and not any other concerns.
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Old 08-11-2017, 06:10 PM   #72
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True enough. The former is just stating your opinion of the book while the latter would be an overt act of censorship. I may not like a particular book and express my right to my opinion on why book x is badly written or has wooden characters etc. and that is my right as a reader. But if I tried to get author x's books banned for whatever reason then I'm trying to foist my views of the world on others and am treading on their rights. That's not to say that some haven't tried with this or that book. There are many books that have been banned by this or that group over the years. I think it can be argued that while most books value is a matter of personal opinion that there are some that should not be written. The book I mentioned in my first post being a case in point. I don't know what became of the 'author' of that book. If he was ever brought to trial or anything but such a book has no redeeming qualities I don't think. I mean there are books on poisons, firearms etc. that people buy for reference purposes (such as if they are writing a novel) and they have some value as such aids but a book on how to molest kids has no such redeeming value attached to it and you don't (I think) need to have read it to know that for a fact. On the other hand I remember seeing a book posted at Amazon titled "Jesus shaves." I don't recall how it came up in book searches. Anyway I may be offended by it as it uses a key figure of Christianity in a way that I find abhorrent, but I realize that my view of said book is based largely on my moral code and Christian belief. Other not of my faith may not be so offended. So it's more a personal choice in that case. I can voice my opinion here and to Amazon about it but as long as said book doesn't break any laws (though some would argue it should) then it does come down to choice and not any other concerns.
Totally agreeing with you.
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Old 08-11-2017, 07:06 PM   #73
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I have no idea if minions like bananas or hate them, but the whole flap makes me want to buy the book to support an author daring to write something different.

I was about to say something very derogatory about Twitter, but then I remembered that the world had witch hunts and McCarthyism even before the internet.
Try this, then:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wopHYlQEv7s

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=sFukyIIM1XI

And yes, the techniques we're seeing predate McCArthy and Salem and the Inquisition. Although the Inquisition example best fits these catfights.
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Old 08-11-2017, 07:14 PM   #74
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Sarah Hoyt does true justice to this issue.

https://accordingtohoyt.com/2017/08/10/being-free/

Looks like I should have been reading books and author web sites yesterday for enjoyment instead of happy spending hours reading court filing.*

bernie

*
Lawyers write some of the best fiction in court filings.
Great link.
I'm bookmarking it for the next catfight.

I need to buy more Hoyt books.
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Old 08-11-2017, 07:23 PM   #75
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This particular woman would have to give up reading if only romance were on offer. Nor would I have any interest in the typical romantic hero. Controlling much? And that's just for starters.

Not all are controlling.
Many are merely vacuous, or bland, or just plain idiots.
Generally good looking, but still idiots.

When it comes to romance I prefer romcoms instead of the straight, earnest stuff. In those you*expect* fools. Just me, of course.

Romance is an endless gold deposit for those able to mine it well.
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