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Old 07-04-2016, 01:03 PM   #16
geekmaster
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Hi, I've always read you and I was expecting this moment for a long time.
You who? From a literal point of view, not specifying the intended recipient of your compliment implies the thread owner, and he has only a few posts so far (but hopefully many more in the future).
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Old 07-04-2016, 01:06 PM   #17
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Sorry, can you point out which link is incorrect and what it should be instead? Confused there
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Old 07-04-2016, 01:15 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by swifty View Post
Sorry, can you point out which link is incorrect and what it should be instead? Confused there
No rudeness intended. Just harsh reality. You are violating our hacker etiquette and our hacker ethics here in your posting methodology.

I am looking at your links. I see you copied my post of links (including my "archive.org" comment at the end) to a pastebin, but you failed to provide attribution. Why not just link to my post from which you copied this information? We frown on such things here.

We only needed non-clickable pastebin URLs for firmware images not provided by amazon. There is no need for the extra "copy/paste" complication for updates already provided by amazon. Please replace you pastebin link with a link to my original post from which you copied it, which has CLICKABLE download links (and gives author attribution). Thanks.

Also, providing a direct download link to Branch Delay's jb.zip attachment fails to give him credit for his work as well. Not as questionable as a direct copy (to a less useful resource at that) to pastebin, but still, AT LEAST MENTION where that attachment link was copied from. Better yet, link to his post so HE CAN UPDATE THAT DOWNLOAD FILE as he needs to (your link may succumb to "software rot" if he deletes and replaces his attachment). But then again, why bother with a 5.6.5 upgrade and (more complicated) 5.6.5 jailbreak when a simple 5.4.x jailbreak (copy files and "Update Your Kindle") will suffice?

I realize that direct downloads to OTHER PEOPLE's attachments are more convenient (while they last), but they are subject to change which will BREAK YOUR LINKS, and you fail to give credit where due that way (knc1 and me and Branch Delay and NiLuJe and perhaps others too). And by creating such links, you hijack control of those files so others may avoid updating their attachments to avoid breaking YOUR post (out of courtesy).

There are some "hacker etiquette" lessons yet to be learned, I think... And "attribution" ethics too.

Last edited by geekmaster; 07-04-2016 at 01:32 PM.
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Old 07-04-2016, 01:30 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by geekmaster View Post
I am looking at your links. I see you copied my post of links (including my "archive.org" comment at the end) to a pastebin, but you failed to provide attribution. Why not just link to my post from which you copied this information? We frown on such things here.

We only needed non-clickable pastebin URLs for firmware images not provided by amazon. There is no need for the extra "copy/paste" complication for updates already provided by amazon. Please replace you pastebin link with a link to my original post from which you copied it, which has CLICKABLE download links (and gives author attribution). Thanks.

Also, providing a direct download link to Branch Delay's jb.zip attachment fails to give him credit for his work as well. Not as questionable as a direct copy (to a less useful resource at that) to pastebin, but still, AT LEAST MENTION where that attachment link was copied from. Better yet, link to his post so HE CAN UPDATE THAT DOWNLOAD FILE as he needs to (your link may succumb to "software rot" if he deletes and replaces his attachment). But then again, why bother with a 5.6.5 upgrade and (more complicated) 5.6.5 jailbreak when a simple 5.4.x jailbreak (copy files and "Update Your Kindle") will suffice?

I realize that direct downloads to OTHER PEOPLE's attachments are more convenient (while they last), but they are subject to change which will BREAK YOUR LINKS, and you fail to give credit where due that way (knc1 and me and Branch Delay and NiLuJe and perhaps others too). And by creating such links, you hijack control of those files so others may avoid updating their attachments to avoid breaking YOUR post (out of courtesy).

There are some "hacker etiquette" lessons yet to be learned, I think...
Sure, I updated the attachment links to the thread and the pastebin link to your post. I just wanted to make it as easy as possible for users visiting this thread. It's the same as your logic about why make them copy paste. Why make them click three times instead of once to download a zip, or a firmware?

I thought about attaching the files directly to my thread, but I'm sure that would make the authors like you more upset. But it's about the users visiting this tutorial. I wanted to make it easy. What if I do attach them and provide credits in the thread, is that allowed?

And idk what the "simple jailbreak" method is, sorry. I'm new here and this is the method that worked for me, so just wanted to share it
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Old 07-04-2016, 01:40 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by swifty View Post
Sure, I updated the attachment links to the thread and the pastebin link to your post. I just wanted to make it as easy as possible for users visiting this thread. It's the same as your logic about why make them copy paste. Why make them click three times instead of once to download a zip, or a firmware?

I thought about attaching the files directly to my thread, but I'm sure that would make the authors like you more upset. But it's about the users visiting this tutorial. I wanted to make it easy. What if I do attach them and provide credits in the thread, is that allowed?

And idk what the "simple jailbreak" method is, sorry. I'm new here and this is the method that worked for me, so just wanted to share it
Your links will break as soon as the attachments are updated by their respective authors. Which will make your thread mostly useless, as-is. And two clicks is easier than a pastebin copy/paste, so not a real analogy. And a direct link makes your post not useful to NON-PW2 owners who COULD HAVE used your tutorial as a guide for similar kindle models. By making it PW2-specific with direct links, as you have done, it makes your thread completely irrelevant, because a PW2 has a MUCH SIMPLER jailbreak which requires fewer potentially risky steps and fewer potentially risky firmware upgrades. As I already explained in a previous post, so I am curious why I need to spend my precious time explaining it AGAIN...

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Old 07-04-2016, 01:40 PM   #21
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There is a tremendous amount of information here and an extremely few people to maintain it.

Referencing the "release" post that has attachments creates more clicks for the user, true -
But we gain a single point of maintenance.

Same thing with copy&attach here, we can't maintain your attachments for you.

Similar thing with direct links to attachments, they will break when the attachment is updated and we can't maintain your links for you.

The end-user will just have to pay the price of a few more mouse clicks in return for stability and dependability.

Try reading my original post on DGA-1, you will see how these details of single point maintenance is handled.

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Old 07-04-2016, 01:46 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by knc1 View Post
There is a tremendous amount of information here and an extremely few people to maintain it.

Referencing the "release" post that has attachments creates more clicks for the user, true -
But we gain a single point of maintenance.

Same thing with copy&attach here, we can't maintain your attachments for you.

Similar thing with direct links to attachments, they will break when the attachment is updated and we can't maintain your links for you.

The end-user will just have to pay the price of a few more mouse clicks in return for stability and dependability.

Try reading my original post on DGA-1, you will see how these details of single point maintenance is handled.
Agreed. And then this thread completely violates the KISS principle as well, because it greatly complicates the steps needed to jailbreak a PW2 with recent firmware. With some edits, it COULD be useful for similar NON-PW2 models, but my suggestions seem to be disregarded so far (though to be fair, the OP is dealing with family holiday events).

And regarding "single point maintenace", this is FAR MORE critically important than it may appear, because many of us "old timers" will not be here much longer (if we are even still alive). Our contributions MUST be as self-supporting as possible if they are to outlive us for the benefit of future generations of antique kindle collectors.

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Old 07-04-2016, 01:55 PM   #23
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Will any of the firmware downgrades work with a UK PW3?
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Old 07-04-2016, 01:59 PM   #24
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Will any of the firmware downgrades work with a UK PW3?
Probably. If you are not afraid of serial debricking just in case it is needed, your contributions to our testing would be greatly appreciated. As far as I know, it SHOULD work, but I would rely more on the judgement and experience of NiLuJe in this case (partly because he lives in Europe himself, but mostly because he is the best expert on this subject outside of lab126, IMHO).

Please refer to the original thread from which this information was "borrowed" (without attribution) for more reliable and universal instructions: DGA-1 (DownGrade Attack One), PW2, PW3, KT2, KV.

Again, we do NOT wish to discourage the author of this thread. We merely wish to teach a simple lesson that will help him be a great future contributor to our technical community. We have our own set of ettiquete and ethics which are used world-wide by folks just like us, as provided in a set of links in a previous post in this thread.

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Old 07-04-2016, 02:07 PM   #25
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Probably. If you are not afraid of serial debricking just in case it is needed, your contributions to our testing would be greatly appreciated. As far as I know, it SHOULD work, but I would rely more on the judgement and experience of NiLuJe in this case (partly because he lives in Europe himself, but mostly because he is the best expert on this subject outside of lab126, IMHO).

Please refer to the original thread from which this information was "borrowed" (without attribution) for more reliable and universal instructions: DGA-1 (DownGrade Attack One), PW2, PW3, KT2, KV.

Again, we do NOT wish to discourage the author of this thread. We merely wish to teach a simple lesson that will help him be a great future contributor to our technical community. We have our own set of ettiquete and ethics which are used world-wide by folks just like us, as provided in a set of links in a previous post in this thread.
I have updated the links, they're not direct links, I did this about an hour ago. Am I missing something else? The way you're posting makes it seem like I've committed a sin I have yet to repent for.

The DGA1 thread you posted is the same exact steps as mine. Including the "unnecessary step" to update from 5.6.5 to 5.8.x which you mentioned earlier. I'm not sure I follow the complaint.

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Old 07-04-2016, 02:16 PM   #26
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I have updated the links, they're not direct links, I did this about an hour ago. Am I missing something else? The way you're posting makes it seem like I've committed a sin I have yet to repent for.

The DGA1 thread you posted is the same exact steps as mine. Including the "unnecessary step" to update from 5.6.5 to 5.8.x which you mentioned earlier. I'm not sure I follow the complaint.
DGA-1 is universal for all kindles, and NOT NEEDED for a PW2, specifically. Whereas yours is (was) VERY PW2-specific, and therefore obsolete at the start.

We communicate quite literally here. I quite literally DID NOT ask you to "repent" (or even infer such a thing). Nor did I "complain". I was merely attempting to EDUCATE. Either of those comment alone shows you have not read (or understood) my links about how hackers (i.e. "mostly-aspie" geeks, and aspies-in-denial) communicate. Taken together (along with prevous posts) shows a failure to communicate that will cause friction in this developer community, and nobody needs that. Regarding not understanding basic ethics, and interpreting education as "complaints", this thread is becoming a dark memory of Duokan. Please read those links. Thanks.

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Old 07-04-2016, 02:17 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by swifty View Post
I have updated the links, they're not direct links, I did this about an hour ago. Am I missing something else? The way you're posting makes it seem like I've committed a sin I have yet to repent for.

The DGA1 thread you posted is the same exact steps as mine. Including the "unnecessary step" to update from 5.6.5 to 5.8.x which you mentioned earlier. I'm not sure I follow the complaint.
It looks like you have the technical errors handled now.
But proper attribution is still lacking.

Let me start from the top:
"The DGA1 thread you posted is the same exact steps as mine. "
Geekmaster IS NOT the author of that thread/post, I am.

From following the first out-of-post link you will see I have been working towards this downgrade attack for over a year.

What part of:
Quote:
If you have a PW-2 you can now use the previous, general, software jailbreak, see:
https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=186645

OR
just keep on reading as if you had any of the other models listed.
What part of that did you have trouble understanding?

At least give me a hint, I'll re-write it.
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Old 07-04-2016, 02:27 PM   #28
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It looks like you have the technical errors handled now.
But proper attribution is still lacking.

Let me start from the top:
"The DGA1 thread you posted is the same exact steps as mine. "
Geekmaster IS NOT the author of that thread/post, I am.

From following the first out-of-post link you will see I have been working towards this downgrade attack for over a year.

What part of:

What part of that did you have trouble understanding?

At least give me a hint, I'll re-write it.
Yeah the way all these guides are written is incredibly difficult to follow. Red text, bold, numbers, everything littered all over a thread haha. I have a master's degree in User Experience Design, so I put my degree to use and I think most people would agree that it is the easiest to follow, currently.

I'm happy to help you rewrite those guides, just shoot me a PM if you want my assistance.

As for attribution, you got it. Added
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Old 07-04-2016, 02:27 PM   #29
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At least give me a hint, I'll re-write it.
Not sure that will help in this case.

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Old 07-04-2016, 02:38 PM   #30
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Yeah the way all these guides are written is incredibly difficult to follow. Red text, bold, numbers, everything littered all over a thread haha. I have a master's degree in User Experience Design, so I put my degree to use and I think most people would agree that it is the easiest to follow, currently.

I'm happy to help you rewrite those guides, just shoot me a PM if you want my assistance.

As for attribution, you got it. Added
3 Thanks.

2 No thanks.

1 Good for you, have you considered that my avatar might be a self-portrait?
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