Help me get started please - Kindle vs. BeBook vs. Sony PRS-505

[rana]

Hi There ! I am new to this forum, and fairly new to the ebook concept in general.

Like most everyone getting started, I am trying to figure out which "reading device" is the right one for me. So far I have tried using a small laptop as well as a PDA, but have come to the conclusion that neither is really suitable for reading books (I know so many of you are going, "well duh !" at this point )

So I would like to get a dedicated reader Based on my reading on this forum (and elsewhere) so far, I have narrowed down my choices to one of the following -- Kindle 2 or BeBook/HanlinV3/EZ-Reader or Sony PRS-505. However, I am having a really tough time making the final decision, primarily because I don't how each will perform in my real day to day environment, given my requirements (see below).

This is where I am hoping some of you would be able to share your experience and help me make this decision

Some background on my preferences are --

1) I would like to get the most flexible device with good support for many different formats

2) The quality of the display and formatting of the text is very important to me. If the text is not nicely formatted, it constantly gets in my way of being able to enjoy the content

3) I absolutely HATE the idea of DRM and being locked down to a single vendor, and would like to support the vendors that sell DRM-free ebooks as much as possible. However, I do realize that in order to get the best selection, I may have to cave down from time to time

4) One BIG advantage I have is that being a newbie to this area, I do not have a large investment made into any particular format at this point. However, once I do start building up my collection, I really would like to have the option of switching to a newer, different, better reader without having to re-purchase the books I have already paid for.

5) I use a lot of PDF documents, and if the reader had good support for this, that would be a huge plus !

6) I am fairly tech savvy and don't mind if I had to manually convert from one format to the other regularly, provided I can still get good formatting at the end using the available tools.


Given the above, here is what my current thought is (and some questions)

1) Clearly, the Hanlin V3 based devices seem the most flexible when it comes to supporting many different formats. But my question is, does it offer the best formatting and display ? So for example, if I buy a book in mobipocket format and view it in K2 or Sony 505 or Hanlin -- will they all look the same ? Or rather, can they all be made to look the same may be with some reformatting ?

2) Purely from a hardware standpoint, I like the Sony PRS-505 the best. But it also seems to be the one most limited in format support. I have read about the conversion tools, namely Calibre, but am not sure how well it really works. Could someone who has a Sony 505 and have done quite a bit of conversion from other formats please comment on this ? So basically, what I am looking for is whether the book will look as good as the original format after conversion ?

3) From a selection point of view, Kindle 2 seems to be the best so far ... but I am dreading the fact that Amazon is really trying to lock me down to their device. Once I purchase a book, I would REALLY REALLY like to "own" it and use it on ANY device that I purchase in the future. Also, in this economy, I am not terribly comfortable with the idea of someone else "backing up" contents that I have purchased and would like to do my own backup.

With this in mind, does anyone know if the AZW files that I purchase from the Amazon store can be backed up on my own PC and converted into other formats in the future ? I am more than happy to get the Kindle 2 for now, as long as I know that I can backup all my purchases on my PC (so in the very rare chance that Amazon goes out of business, or I don't want to work with them any more) I will still have access to MY contents and be able to read them on any other device that I may upgrade to in the future.

Also, if I buy the Kindle and then buy books in other formats from other stores, how well can they be converted to a format that the Kindle will understand ? Will they look as good after the conversion ?

Does Amazon terms of use prevent the user from putting any content of their choosing in the Kindle ? So if I buy a book in another format, convert it to AZW or some other Kindle supported format, and then put it on the Kindle -- can Amazon later wipe out that from MY Kindle with a future update ?

Finally, one last question about the Hanlin V3 based devices. If I go this route, I will either buy the BeBook or the Astrak EZ Reader ... just from the point of view of them being lower cost. But are they EXACTLY the same as far as the hardware is concerned ? Can the firmware from any of these 3 be applied to the other ? I thought this is the case, but what confused me is that on the Astrak website it has the following statement --

All eBooks on this website are powered by Mobipocket eBooks common library and you can read them on your PC, but not on the EZ Reader. This is because the EZ reader currently does not support DRM ebooks. We are working hard on supporting the DRM format, and we will notify EZ Reader users when a firmware update is available (it will be displayed on this website).

I thought the latest Hanlin/BeBook firmware does support Mobi formats well, so why doesn't the EZ Reader.

Well, that's all for now ! I hope you all will not alienate me for starting on this forum with SOOO many questions.

much in advance


P.S. BTW, I am voting for "something else" just so I don't have to click "view poll results" everytime

[iterati]

Originally Posted by rana

Finally, one last question about the Hanlin V3 based devices. If I go this route, I will either buy the BeBook or the Astrak EZ Reader ... just from the point of view of them being lower cost. But are they EXACTLY the same as far as the hardware is concerned ? Can the firmware from any of these 3 be applied to the other ?

Yes & yes. Personally, I prefer the firmware you haven't mentioned, the one from lbook http://www.lbook.com.ua/ru/download/lBook%20V3 (note: don't switch to English language, it won't show the download link).

[rana]

Thanks for the quick response iterati ! This is great to know. I didn't know about the lbook firmware ... will definitely look into it if I get a Hanlin V3 based device.

I hope Astrak updates the message on their website about the EZ-Reader not being Mobi compliant now that the Hanlin firmware support it. That was throwing me off, and I guess will do so for other prospective buyers ...

http://www.mobiebook.com/default.asp

[rana]

As I am reading more, I am finding that my local library has lots of ebooks of my interest available. Most of these seem to be in the Adobe time limited DRM format. I don't have a problem with this particular type of DRM, since i am not paying to get the book and I don't own it.

Which reader supports the Adobe DRM books best ? From my limited search so far, it looks like the Sony PRS-505 is the only one that natively supports this -- is this correct ?

[Sydney's Mom]

Well, yes, although the recent program to remove DRM from Adobe and free programs to convert to mobi makes putting library books on the kindle a no-brainer. And I an NOT tech savvy (not even a little!)

[Greg Anos]

PDF files have limitations on being shown on a smaller screen. This is regardless of the liseuse (e-book reader) being used. I am in the midst of shifting to Bebook/Openinkpot (a freeware reading firmware consortium) as my primary liseuse. All the software has implemetation problems/limits, so it is a matter of which set of limits you'er the most comfortable with.

For example, SONY's doesn't support HTML and supports RTF only without pictures. Kindle is very amazon centered, although you can load mobipocket (.prc) files onto it. No HTML or RTF. Bebook has various firmwares available, each with their own set of issues. Openinkpot handles HTML, RTF without pictures, TXT, and PRC, but it's still beta with features being added and bugs fixed. It's stable enough for my use, so I'm converting all my RTF files to HTML, which takes time.

Hope this helps.

[rana]

Hope this helps.

Yes, this was helpful ! Thanks very much.

Originally Posted by Ralph Sir Edward

PDF files have limitations on being shown on a smaller screen. This is regardless of the liseuse (e-book reader) being used.

Any idea if PDF is the only format with this restriction ? Does the Mobipocket format display better on smaller screens ? Unfortunately my local library has many more PDF books than Mobi.

How about converting from PDF to Mobi ? Does that help with the screen formatting issue ? If so, so you know which tool does the best job of converting PDFs into Mobi ?

I see that Mobipocket Creator can convert from PDF. Since it appears to be free, I will give this a shot with a couple PDF books I have and see how that works.

How do I verify how it will look on a small screen though ? When using MobiReader, can I restrict the screen size on the PC to "emulate" a 6 inch screen ?

I am in the midst of shifting to Bebook/Openinkpot (a freeware reading firmware consortium) as my primary liseuse. All the software has implemetation problems/limits, so it is a matter of which set of limits you'er the most comfortable with.

Yes, this is sadly becoming more and more evident to me Hence trying to find a hardware/software solution that will pose the least issues with my needs.

I know OpenInkPot doesn't support DRM formats right now; do you know if there are plans to do that in the future ?

[rana]

Oooh ! I just downloaded the Mobipocket Creator and see that it comes with an emulator ... I am still installing this, but has anyone tried this ? Does it give a realistic depiction of how the created/converted book will actually look like on the actual e-reader screen ?

[iterati]

Originally Posted by rana

Any idea if PDF is the only format with this restriction ? Does the Mobipocket format display better on smaller screens ? Unfortunately my local library has many more PDF books than Mobi.

The issue with pdf is that is pre-structured in pages and it requires either that page to fit in the whole screen or zoom in/out. Think image. Another limitation is that you have to stick with the font that the pdf maker chose for you.
True/plain text is totally dynamic, think notepad, html, rtf. There is the option to change font size and family and therefore adjust the volume of the text that appears on the screen of the e-reader.
Mobipocker is mostly OK.

[slayda]

If you check out my devices, you'll note I have a little of most everything. That said, my favorite reader is the EZ Reader with the OpenInkPot (OI) firmware on the SD card. Any of the Hanliin family's frimware updates can be used with the hardware which, to the best of my knowledge, are all identical. Only the firmware differs. Having the OI firmware on the SD card instead of flashing it to internal memory allows you to use the original firmware if you want to but switch to OI when you prefer it. I stay in the OI mode unless I want to try something with DRM, e.g. DRMed Epub, otherwise I mostly deDRM and convert to Mobipocket. I have only had one bad experience with the formatting when doing that (Note; I rarely get PDF ebooks.)

I'm like you in that I want the availability of many formats & hate DRM.

You asked about the Kindle formats. There are two, the AZW & the AZW1 (aka Topaz). The AZW is just a Mobipocket format with the file extension renamed. Of course Amazon won't tell you what the Kindle's PID is but if you read the forums here that is easy to find and then easy to deDRM. AFAIK the AZW1 can not be deDRMed.

PDF is an odd format in that it can be purely images (sometimes of text), purely text or a mixture. If it is purely text and appropriately formated (not too often the case) then Mobipocket Creator does a good job of converting it. It does a very poor job with images of text, or other images. The main reason is that PDF is designed for a page layout function, i.e. to be printed on letter sized paper. This results in the 8.5x11 page being reduced to the readers 6 inch screen. All this is the reason I stay away from PDFs unless it's the only thing available.

The Adobe DRM can not be removed, see other threads for this. Therefore you don't have to be able to read that format since you can deDRM and convert it.

Bottom line for me is the Hanlin familty with OI on the SD card is the best option for me. I'd sell both my PRS-500 (works but has some damage) and my Cybook ( very good shape and does have some excellent features, e.g. dictionary lookup) if I had a buyer but haven't tried to do so yet. The Kindle 1 that I bought on Ebay is so I can buy those Amazon books that I want and because they were just getting so cheap. My Palm TX is still too useful as a PDA to sell it and I do ocassionally read on it. It's nice for fitting in my pocket and for low light conditions too.

Oh and welcome to MR.

[slayda]

Originally Posted by rana

Oooh ! I just downloaded the Mobipocket Creator and see that it comes with an emulator ... I am still installing this, but has anyone tried this ? Does it give a realistic depiction of how the created/converted book will actually look like on the actual e-reader screen ?

I wasn't aware of an emulator. What version of Creator do you have?

[rana]

Thanks Slayda

I didn't realize that the OI firmware can be loaded directly from the SD card without having to flash the device. That is a HUGE advantage ! This tilts the scale quite a bit towards the Hanlin devices.

Your explanation of the difficulty with how the PDF was created makes perfect sense. Most of the PDF books I have seen so far allows me to copy-paste texts from them, so I am assuming they are basically formatted texts and not images (of text). But I will play with Mobicreator some to see how it works.

By the way, I have been reading some issues with the Mobi font support on the Hanlin devices. Even with the latest firmware, the smallest font size for Mobi books is still too big. Do you have any experience with this ?

You also gave me a great idea about possibly buying a K1 for cheap just so I can buy the books from Kindle store, and then buy a Hanlin device to read them on I just might do that if I can pick up a K1 for cheap (hopefully more people will migrate to the K2 and at least some will dump the K1 at a reasonable price).

Does Amazon's terms of service prevent reading a Kindle content on another device ? It will be really sad if they did, but this is one of those cases where I don't mind converting the content I bought anyway even if Amazon doesn't want me to, since this is a perfect example of "fair use".

[rana]

Originally Posted by slayda

I wasn't aware of an emulator. What version of Creator do you have?

version 4.2 build 4.1 that I just downloaded from here.

http://www.mobipocket.com/en/downloa...oadCreator.asp

The page says --

The Mobipocket Creator is a free software.
It includes the Mobipocket Emulator to test and preview the eBooks that you create.

Haven't tried this yet though ... so I don't know if they are talking about emulating an actual ereader device -or- just test how it will work on another PC.

[rana]

I tried the Mobipocket device emulator, and unfortunately it does not have any of the "real" readers supported yet ... just few older Windows CE and other devices ... not a single e-ink based reader listed. Oh well, it was worth a try.

[sigma8]

Originally Posted by rana

Purely from a hardware standpoint, I like the Sony PRS-505 the best. But it also seems to be the one most limited in format support.

Actually, that distinction belongs to the Kindle. The only native formats it supports are TXT and non-DRM'ed mobi.

From what you've said, I'd say Hanlin. The only thing that prevented me from voting for that, was its lack of DRM'ed PDF support, which eliminates the whole library lending thing. My vote went to "other", and if you really need absolute breadth and flexibility, I say Tablet PC.

Or you can trim down your requirements. I changed my requirements from stuff that was more like yours and pared it down to: "be able to read free books on the device; be able to read newsfeeds and/or downloaded content from the web on the device; pdf support". That trimmed-down list let me focus on the fun part of deciding: picking form-factor, user-interface, and color--rather than agonizing between a bunch of readers, none of which that did exactly what I wanted.

And I think software availability is an important consideration. If Caliber didn't exist, it would have impacted my consideration of certain readers.