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View Poll Results: File Manager? | |||
I'd like to have it! | 53 | 37.59% | |
I am using search function. | 21 | 14.89% | |
I use shelves. | 53 | 37.59% | |
I'd like to have collections. | 13 | 9.22% | |
I don't need it. | 59 | 41.84% | |
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 141. You may not vote on this poll |
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06-18-2013, 12:43 AM | #61 | ||||
Nameless Being
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06-18-2013, 01:04 AM | #62 | |
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Directories (or "folders" for those that grew up with GUI's) were invented back in the 60's for the Multics operating system. They were a handy way of separating and sorting files. Microsoft has realised for a while that directories are actually quite limiting and started work on WinFS (Windows Future Storage) which combined file storage with a relational database for storing meta data about the files. Using this method it would possible to do all sorts of queries to get lists of files (WinFS did a lot more than just this, but this is the part that's relevant to this conversation). Unfortunately WinFS was cancelled, but some parts of it have made it into Windows; Windows 7 introduced the idea of a "library", where a file could reside in one or more libraries, thus allowing you to organise files in different ways. IMHO accessing the Kobo's library via its database could be very powerful, allowing for all sorts of segmenting and sorting. With "shelves" we've seen some of this come to life, but there's probably a lot more you could do. Accessing the library directly via a simple file system seems like a step backwards to me. |
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06-18-2013, 01:06 AM | #63 | |
Bibliophagist
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Beats where I used to live when the question was "Where were you the night of Nov. 14th to Jan. 25th inclusive?" An area where we thought Edmonton was in the deep south. As for the hike, I didn't have my nose buried in a guidebook. I was the guy wearing a couple of cameras taking pictures of anything that stood still for more than 2 seconds and quite a few things that didn't. Regards, David |
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06-18-2013, 01:29 AM | #64 | |
One
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06-18-2013, 01:43 AM | #65 |
Wizard
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theonna, you're making the assumption that a file browser is a default technology. It's not. If a pre-existing plugin, it must be integrated. If a new piece of software it must be designed, developed and integrated.
All of which adds up to time, and in sixteen years of life in high tech I have never heard of a dev team with enough time to do everything. So, given that Kobo has adopted database as their file location method... why waste the time on a file browser? The more logical course is to spend the time improving the database experience... or implementing other features they feel will drive people towards purchasing their product. Sufficient demand will get a company to implement just about anything. Given that even Amazon, the undisputed worldwide leader in e-reader tech, hasn't seen sufficient need to implement a file browser system with directories/folders... why in the world would anyone else see it? |
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06-18-2013, 02:17 AM | #66 |
GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool!
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Huh? On the library book interface, rather than a drop down list of a couple of simple premade sorts, you'd require a horizontal line at top of about three list boxes, drop downs or buttons to select the sort hierarchies from existing choices like: Genre, Title, Author, Publisher, Shelf, Series, Recently Read, etc., other choices could be pulled from metadata.
Selecting: Genre, Author, Title, from left to right in the new drop downs would yield a list sorted by Genres, within that by Authors and within each Author by Titles A-Z... which would be most peoples's hierarchy if they created a directory/file based hierarchy. If you could not still find your book by title in a sort you drilled down through, you'd then hit a search button, select either a metadata tag to search for or enter a phrase to search from the default book summary metadata field. The advantage is you could quickly narrow down the scope of the search by selecting the level at which you want it performed rather than searching the entire database. Better yet, forgot the Author, no sweat set the top list sort parameters to Genre then Title and look at every Title A-Z in a certain Genre. Again narrow it further with the Metadata field Search if you can't find it by looking at the Titles for the Genre alone. Just a simple idea, based on how people usually look for things while leveraging the computer to do the heavy lifting. By narrowing the search you speed things up considerably. Last edited by TechniSol; 06-18-2013 at 02:28 AM. |
06-18-2013, 02:22 AM | #67 |
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There is a fairly easy to implement technical solution that should serve both camps participating in this discussion:
(1) implement multi-level shelf support (something I would consider a huge improvement by itself) (2) implement an (optional!) feature to auto-create multi-level shelves based on file structure (i.e. each directory becomes a shelf, directory name = shelf name) That way you'd have a simulated file browser while completely adhering to the general metadata/library based approach as currently implemented. |
06-18-2013, 02:48 AM | #68 |
GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool!
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You could do that, but why bother? The method I outlined doesn't care about physical structure except when titles are added and it must record their paths which must be done in the dBASE already. If you wish to browse a "Shelf" set the dropdown lists to create the virtual shelf sorted by whatever criteria you like and voila. Think about how much this can speed up varying waits we experience now. All new titles can be dropped into one folder location and only that location need be checked each time you power cycle as deletions would go through the database as well. The ereader would only need to check for new books in that one location and not have to verify the database on every power cycle. It would move the new submission out of that directory and add it wherever it thought appropriate, or could even be set to preserve your directory/file structures. The actual physical locations are irrelevant, the file structure you see now is merely an abstract illusion represented to you by the file system.
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06-18-2013, 04:54 AM | #69 | |
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File manager is not something that developers team need to develop, the reason Amazon and others don't want file manager has nothing to do with ease or difficulty of its development, because it is already there, it has to do with their desire to protect their content. Operating systems that run reading devices all have file management system, it is a choice of management to close this system from user and offer instead artificial extra layer for "convenience". I am sure designing shelf and database construct is far more laborious than using existing file manager. It is a matter of choice, not resources. |
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06-18-2013, 05:15 AM | #70 |
GranPohbah-Fezzes r cool!
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Theonna,
Pretty much all of the code necessary to do what I've outlined exists in the various single level sorts they already employ on the Library:Books menu options and pull down. I'm just suggesting a slight interface refinement in the GUI and addition of a multi-level sort and search function like they already have to be used on the results at any given level and downward. |
06-18-2013, 09:05 AM | #71 | |
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And you're right. I don't need all that room on the reader. Before going on vacation, I make sure I have enough reading material. For me one book per week is plenty. When I'm away, for vacation or business, I'm busy doing other things and not reading much. I should also mention that I read a lot of books from the elibrary. Over the last 12 months, 50% of my reading has been from the library. I anticipate that's it's going to be even higher in the next 12 months. Leslie |
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06-18-2013, 11:30 AM | #72 | |
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The advantage compared to implementing a 'real' file browser is that, from the use case perspective, it would be reasonable to request a file browser to include file handling functionality. This is something that could NOT easily be implemented while keeping to a general metadata based paradigm for library handling - at least not on a device that takes as long as a KOBO to rebuild/update the database. Assuming a completely and consistently tagged library there is, of course, no real need for a file browser style interface and I agree that in this scenario refining search, sorting and filtering options would be preferable. But this is a separate use case. |
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06-18-2013, 11:38 AM | #73 |
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I do have a 'library well organized by file names and directory structure' and I would love to have a 'auto-create shelves by directory structure', but I don't shed tear for its absence.
Also, I don't feel the need of a file browser: I know more or less what's on the device so the search function is all I need at this point in time. What I would really need is a realiable system for taking notes and making highlights, which I would also love to be far easier to navigate (something like the function on the Paperwhite). As of firmware 2.5.2 notes didn't work at all on sideloaded EPUBs, a function I need since I need to proofread a lot. |
06-18-2013, 12:54 PM | #74 |
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I set up Browse Folders on the Home screen of my Sonys originally (an option with PRS+) and thought it would be great to use. However, between Collections (Shelves on the Kobo) and sorting by author, I found I never had a need to use the Browse Folders option, it was just redundant, so I removed it from the Home screen.
So for me, using Shelves or Collections works perfectly so I don't need a Browse Folder option. I sideload all my books through Calibre and sending books to either my Sonys or the Kobo Glo automatically puts all books into Collections or Shelves based on my tags for genres without me doing anything else (and I keep the tags simple, 1 tag per book only). It would be nice though if everyone had the option to Browse Folders if they choose or not, the way PRS+ has enabled the Sonys. Giving readers options is always the best solution. |
06-18-2013, 01:46 PM | #75 | |
Tenrec
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