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09-19-2013, 10:56 PM | #1 |
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September 2013 Discussion: The Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie (spoilers)
The time has come to discuss the September 2013 MobileRead Book Club selection, The Satanic Verses by Salman Rushdie. What did you think?
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09-20-2013, 10:43 AM | #2 |
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I just couldn't get into this book. I gave up after a hundred pages.
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09-20-2013, 01:11 PM | #3 |
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09-20-2013, 02:04 PM | #4 | |||
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I also struggled with this book until I came to the conclusion that I had three choices: (1) give up on the book, (2) plod through it miserably, or (3) read enough secondary material to have a framework in which to at least partially understand what I was reading and the author’s intent. One of the chief obstacles for me was that the story kept changing. Just as I cared about a story…Presto Change-o!...I was in another story.
This quote from a Rushdie interview helped: Quote:
I was on page 252, 50%, when I was riveted by this paragraph: Quote:
In the interview cited above, Rushdie says of Ovid's Metamorphoses: Quote:
A second theme that fascinates me is the experience of the migrant, which is also a metamorphosis. But there will be time enough in this thread for that. Last edited by BelleZora; 09-20-2013 at 03:00 PM. Reason: spelling |
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09-20-2013, 02:20 PM | #5 |
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Thanks, Belle Zora for your insights.
I like the flow of words in this book, which is at times very poetic. There is also a depth in this book, which I feel I cannot grasp in one reading; I am tempted to look up all Rushdie refers to in his text and that just won't do. I'll save it for the second reading, if I come to it. In the meantime, I enjoy this book and juggle the different story lines. |
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09-20-2013, 06:54 PM | #6 |
Snoozing in the sun
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I agree - a great post, BelleZora, thank you. I found the book quite a slog too, but did finish it a couple of days ago. I "diagnosed" Gibreel's schizophrenia part-way through and was happy that we were seeing the world, and Saladin, through his eyes. But then when we went back to Saladin, it seems that the two of them really did fall out of the plane and survive, etc. Of course, maybe Saladin was also suffering from schizophrenia!
But all that is being too literal and I think you are right Belle, that the outward changes signify inner changes to the individuals, at least in part because of the experiences of migration. Saladin was certainly behaving in an evil fashion with his own "satanic verses" in the phone calls he made, and Gibreel was angelic in rescuing Saladin even though he had realised it was Saladin who had destroyed his relationship with Allie. A strange book, but I'm glad I persevered with it. |
09-21-2013, 12:08 AM | #7 | ||||
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Quote:
Gibreel then rushes in and finds the fallen, traitorous Saladin, and this question is asked: Quote:
Quote:
This book asks so many questions that I can barely (or not even) comprehend them, much less the answers, although questions are obviously more important to Rushdie than answers. The questions that held my attention most concerned the presence of good and evil within the same person: how could this be? What does it mean? Rushdie asks: "Are we coming closer to it? Should we even say that these are two fundamentally different types of self?" Quote:
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09-21-2013, 05:26 PM | #8 | ||
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Quote:
Quote:
Last edited by fantasyfan; 09-21-2013 at 05:36 PM. |
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09-21-2013, 09:38 PM | #9 |
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The weirdness at the beginning overwhelmed me and I had to take a break from the book. When I picked it up again I was able to get through about 20% before abandoning it again. I stopped this time because I knew I was missing out on most of the cultural and religious references and it seemed pointless to carry on.
I was hoping to find out what all the fuss was about, but I'm still in the dark. I didn't find anything I read offensive, but I'm not religious or easily offended either. |
09-21-2013, 11:48 PM | #10 |
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I'll read these posts once I've finished (about 70% through), but my observations currently are:
The writing in this is lovely and (as I've mentioned before) whimsical. This is very in character with other Rushdie books I've read and I think it makes reading him enjoyable. What Rushdie is trying to do with this playful narrative is a little difficult to discern if you don't understand what he's playing on. There's a truck load of cultural and religious references that I think you probably need to have at least a basic understanding of to really "get" where he's going. I actually don't, which I think is going to hamper my ability to comprehend and discuss his message. I don't really have the required enthusiasm to read up on the legends, folklore and religious tenets involved in the making of the story, so I'm responding to the book on a more superficial level. Even losing that depth of understanding, I'm actually enjoying all the bizarre and fantastical stories being told. I feel somewhat like I'm lost in Aesop's Fables or similar as I'm reading. I'll see what more I can contribute once I've completed the novel. |
09-22-2013, 03:46 PM | #11 | ||||||
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So I seem to have enjoyed this book a lot more than some. I liked the blend of fantasy and reality, the quality of the writing, and the multiple threads that were maintained even though the threads were not continuous, but instead seemingly temporarily abandoned to be resumed later. Though I also saw some common themes being present in all threads. I will admit though that there are many aspects of the book that left me wondering what Rushdie's intent was, and even in cases where I think I understand at times was at a loss of how to put my thoughts into words. With regard to that I really, really appreciate BelleZora's comments.
Quote:
Quote:
Of course the mere mention of the so called “Satanic Verses” may have been enough. When Mahound (Muhammad) is offered status and power in Jahilian (Mecca) if only he will be flexible in his belief that there is only one God—Allah— and accept the pagan goddesses Uzza. Manat, and Al-Lat as lesser deities he goes to the cave on the mountain to await a revelation from the Angel Gibreel (Gabriel). He receives a revelation that he may do so, announces this to his followers and others in Jahilian, but quickly renounces this a a false revelation from Satan. Bad enough in the eyes of Islamic leaders to even speak of this, but in this book Rushdie has Gibreel reveal that that "Satanic" revelation was not from Satan, but from him. Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
This idea is raised again when the modern Ayesha (the butterfly woman) claims to have received a revelation from Gibreel that the entire village of Titlipur should walk to Mecca, and that when they reach the sea it will part to allow them to pass. Later pressed to reveal how this revelation came to her she admits that she heard in in the lyrics of popular songs of the day. Quote:
Rushdie also has some negative things to say about what sort of discrimination and abuse an immigrant, especially one of brown to black skin shade, can expect in Great Britain. So I found this a very complex book and probably have only grasped the meaning of some of it. I am really looking forward to more discussion from others. |
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09-23-2013, 01:39 AM | #12 | |
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Quote:
Apparently The Satanic Verses is built upon the work and thought of Lucretius (The Nature of Things), Ovid (Metamorphoses), James Joyce (everything), as well as upon Islamic texts, history, and culture, Indian history and culture, and God knows what else. Inexplicably, while reading this book that I hated at the outset, the idea struck me that I really wanted to understand what Rushdie wanted to relate. It was a daunting thought for a high school drop-out who is generally the slowest person in the room to get the joke. But I almost grasped something in this book that felt important to me. The grandeur of fiction (stories, parables, myths, fables) is that it is where the great ideas, which do not fit themselves to a literal synopsis, can be inferred. They grow in us as knowledge that is beyond the words by which they are imparted. Rushdie isn't just telling us a story for our entertainment, which is disappointing if that is what we want from him. He is trying to transmit ideas, even if maybe they are mostly questions, in a series of parables with an erudite ancestry. He isn't easy, and whether he is worth the effort probably depends upon how much we, individually, need to make sense of the questions he poses. |
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09-24-2013, 01:09 PM | #13 |
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OK - finally finished. Really enjoyed this book. I was lost on a lot of things and having now read through the comments, I can certainly relate a feeling of confusion at times, and not being sure really what Rushdie was getting at.
However, it was a lovely book. I thoroughly enjoyed reading it. It's not my first Rushdie and the other books I've read have left me feeling similarly content. The end of the story was magnificent with Saladin Chamcha and his father - and the lamp. Oooh wonderful! In the blurb on the back of my book, it mentions a parallel with Gulliver's Travels and that has a ring of truth to it for me. I would add to that the rather absurd The Adventures of Baron Munchausen. What I got from it? I definitely responded to the nature of good and evil. I didn't so much feel the metamorphosis, possibly because I already found myself taking the Ovid view that the change was not the change. Which is why the story ended like it did. However, I just adored all the links Al-lat with Alleluia, Gibreel with - well Gibreel, the two significant planes Bostan and Gulistan. Gibreel and Saladin were ejected from one garden after leaving home and Saladin was carried home in the other. Sisodia as someone but I don't know who. His convenient appearances are even remarked on at the end of the book. And the stories... loved them. Also, I'm not sure if there is significance is the fact that there are two Ayeshas, two Hinds and two Mishals. I also wonder if the believer turned cynic Salman is intentionally named thusly. It was interesting seeing the differences in conflict in London versus Bombay with the main religious heavyweights belting it out in India, whereas race is the major divide in London. In both places, you notice Saladin ends up with an activist - almost to show their mirror-like relationship to Saladin. Pamela was London to Saladin, whereas Zeeny Vakil could very well have represented India. What Rushdie was saying about religion is possibly hard to say. He has had his own religious history, starting Muslim, becoming an atheist, implying that he'd reverted, retracted the reversion. I'm still thinking that Salman in the story is a bit close though don't you think? Anyway - this is my usual erratic drivel to start off my discussion. Really enjoyed this book. Gave it 4 stars. EDIT: I think I posted this late and night - repetition, poor expression. I'm beginning to think I need to hire an editor for my forum posts. Last edited by caleb72; 09-26-2013 at 08:06 AM. |
09-28-2013, 04:15 AM | #14 |
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Finally - finished this last night. I don't think I've ever taken so long to read a book, the whole month spent with this and nothing else!
Did I enjoy it? Not sure really, I was confused and looking for the 'got it' moment for a long time. The different threads running through the story entertained me, however most of my time was spent trying to work out what was going on and how it all fit together. I think a lot fell into place towards the end and I finished with a sense of satisfaction (relief?). I think if I read it again I'd enjoy it more but, with so many books on my TBR list, that's not likely! |
09-29-2013, 06:23 AM | #15 |
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I've finally decided to abandon it. I got 2/5ths of the way through, and took a break. I have felt no desire to take it back up again, nor has any of the discussion in this thread changed my mind.
I don't have any confidence that persisting with the book would be rewarding for me. I think I gave it a fair crack of the whip. 1/5 from me. |
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