Research-Heavy Writing

[gmw]

Originally Posted by Hitch

[...]WRT Scrivener...{shrug}. To me, much of what people seem to like (like card view), I guess I just don't "get." I can do what's done in card view, pretty much, in YWriter, or in OneNote or Evernote, etc. [...]

I am fairly ambivalent about the card view, but Scrivener offers other, much more useful, views as well.

There were two things I liked about Scrivener:

* The ability to have the whole project (research, notes, story) all presented in a useful, easy to see and access form.

* The ability to write in scenes/snippets and have it all brought together as a single view.

It's not that you cannot do these things using other tools, but Scrivener presents it all together in a cohesive, easy to use and visually appealing package. Added to that, it comes with probably the best tutorial system I've ever seen (including the various software that I've written ). It shows you not only what the product can do, but how the product is meant to be used. (The latter makes a big difference in how effectively software can be used.)

I chose not to use it for a few reasons. High on the list was lack of support for styles. I believe this is largely the result of it using RTF rather HTML, although I have seen another product that implemented a styles mechanism using RTF (I don't now how effective it was). So I continue to use my old bits-and-pieces approach - it works for me until I can get around to writing my own solution. But I can certainly see the appeal of Scrivener; it's an impressive product.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by gmw

I am fairly ambivalent about the card view, but Scrivener offers other, much more useful, views as well.

There were two things I liked about Scrivener:

* The ability to have the whole project (research, notes, story) all presented in a useful, easy to see and access form.

* The ability to write in scenes/snippets and have it all brought together as a single view.

It's not that you cannot do these things using other tools, but Scrivener presents it all together in a cohesive, easy to use and visually appealing package. Added to that, it comes with probably the best tutorial system I've ever seen (including the various software that I've written ). It shows you not only what the product can do, but how the product is meant to be used. (The latter makes a big difference in how effectively software can be used.)

I chose not to use it for a few reasons. High on the list was lack of support for styles. I believe this is largely the result of it using RTF rather HTML, although I have seen another product that implemented a styles mechanism using RTF (I don't now how effective it was). So I continue to use my old bits-and-pieces approach - it works for me until I can get around to writing my own solution. But I can certainly see the appeal of Scrivener; it's an impressive product.

I agree that there's certainly a big old tutorial. ;-)

I guess I'm anti-foof. LOL. I like that I can do the same thing, in YWriter--and what I like about Ywriter is that I can force myself to analyze action/reaction and the like, AND (for me, this is a biggie if you are writing things that have to track who's where when) it will automagically create a timeline for the entire piece, for each character. Niiiiiiiice. I don't know any other piece of software that does that--they all require that YOU input the timeline stuff--well, hell, if you knew that, why would you need it?

I tried Scrivener multiple times. Like I said, I guess I just don't get it.

I really liked PowerStructure, for creating One Outline to Rule Them All. But I still lean toward using YWriter to create the scenes, with synopses, all the other goodies (everything from props to locations, etc.) and then, when it's "mostly done" you can export it to RTF and slap it in Word to do final edits, track changes, styles, etc. (And for the obsessively organized, you can, absolutely, dock OneNote to Word, so that for all intents and purposes, you have...Scrivener. No "card view" though.)

FWIW.

Hitch

[MarjaE]

Originally Posted by Hitch

I do think that if @MarjaE can quantify her problem, then the solution should present itself, I'd think.

Hitch

I think "will this software give me a migraine?" "will this worsen my rsi?" "can I read the manual?" and "if I have to switch software, will other software be able to open my work without trouble?" are important questions.

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

I think "will this software give me a migraine?" "will this worsen my rsi?" "can I read the manual?" and "if I have to switch software, will other software be able to open my work without trouble?" are important questions.

Seriously:

I would suggest you not use any software or application or computer, since the technology is apparently not available to do what you wish (and the concomitant effects of using such technology appear to adversely affect your health).

You might try a typewriter, if one can be purchased.

There are a number of writers who love to use fountain pens. I've even used one and I like it very much. You might wish to check into that option.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

I think "will this software give me a migraine?" "will this worsen my rsi?" "can I read the manual?" and "if I have to switch software, will other software be able to open my work without trouble?" are important questions.

MarjaE:

My point was, we are sort of nailing jello to the wall, because we're looking at those questions--and not, "what specific software can do the job," first, and THEN winnowing down from there. That was my point.

It may well be, as DD says, that there isn't any software that will do what you want and not worsen your RSI. OR, be able to address all your other issues, but may not be usable elsewhere, etc.

Hitch

[MarjaE]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

You might try a typewriter, if one can be purchased.

There are a number of writers who love to use fountain pens. I've even used one and I like it very much. You might wish to check into that option.

I have coordination problems, so I have a lot of trouble using ball-points and can't use fountain pens. I have an easier time with harder lead in pencils. I think #2.5 and above.

I don't want to use as much paper going over each section away from the computer, but that would be worse if I were typing each section on a typewriter.

I have rsi, so I would rather not re-type everything for each revision, and I'd have to type everything on the computer after the final revision anyway.

I know typewriters are supposed to cause less rsi than most computer keyboards.

It's possible that I'd get less rsi with a mechanical keyboard more like a typwriter keyboard.

I currently use an Adesso mini keyboard with the left side propped up, to reduce wrist strain on my right hand. I occasionally hit the Home/PageUp/PageDn/End keys, and can't disable them. I also use a Logitech mini keyboard. I have trouble with larger keyboards, and I think I would have trouble with chordal keyboards.

I have looked up ergonomic advice, but a lot of it assumes better coordination, among other things, so people can type with two hands at once, and therefore don't have to swing their typing hand across the keyboard, and therefore can look at the screen instead of the keyboard...

[Hitch]

Perhaps you should be considering alternative ways to get the data organized, in terms of not using your hands.

I have very bad issues in my mousing-arm shoulder. I'm old-skool, so I mouse with my non-dominant hand, my left arm. I used to use a digitizing tablet and a digitizing puck (mouse), but while I've kept the tablet, I've switched over to a typical mouse. I've invested in a Matias Ergo pro keyboard--but I can't recommend that to other people, because I've had a lot of use issues with it. It has been very good for my hands/wrists.

However, the big change for me is that I spent the dough to buy Dragon Nat Speaking, with the latest version. While I've read lots of reviews of the older versions that didn't love it, this latest is really quite great. Yes, sure, there's some training involved, but given the limitations you're working with, you may want to consider it.

Then, you'd have more alternatives in terms of the software. Right now, we all still seem to be trying to address software, but you have other considerations that might rule out X or Y, in ways that we can't foresee.

I've been very happy with my investment into DNS. I find myself reaching for it sometimes when I don't even have a specific issue, just because it's faster to dictate emails than type them on occasion. {shrug}.

I think that something like that would give you a lot more options, as it speaks directly to your RSI, coordination issues, etc. which in turn would allow you to look at software with fewer limitations.

Hitch

[MarjaE]

Thank you.

I have a vertical mouse, and that helps.

I have Dragon for Mac, and that doesn't help. It wouldn't follow its listed voice commands, it wouldn't follow its settings,-- for example, I set it to use numerals instead of spelled numbers, but it would still insist on spelling "one" instead of "1"-- it wouldn't allow voice corrections, and it would go haywire if I used the mouse or keyboard, to move between the source document and my own work, or to move in either, or to select where to input data, or to do manual corrections.

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by MarjaE

Thank you.

I have a vertical mouse, and that helps.

I have Dragon for Mac, and that doesn't help. It wouldn't follow its listed voice commands, it wouldn't follow its settings,-- for example, I set it to use numerals instead of spelled numbers, but it would still insist on spelling "one" instead of "1"-- it wouldn't allow voice corrections, and it would go haywire if I used the mouse or keyboard, to move between the source document and my own work, or to move in either, or to select where to input data, or to do manual corrections.

I'm sorry to hear that. The most recent version, for PC is really quite astounding in how capable it is. I'm using Dragon 13.0, which I purchased in 2014, and it's amazingly good. Yes, I had to invest some time training it, but it was worth it.

You may wish to consider whether or not the version you have is new enough to work well, (n.b.: there seems to be no version of DNS that is "new enough" on a Mac to work well, unfortunately), or perhaps, you might think about springing for a cheap PC laptop, for this purpose only. I mean, you're kinda trying to push a chain up a hill, to begin with, as the Mac universe has fewer software options to begin with. Between that and your unique needs, a PC might give you more options. I know that Mac users are very attached to the universe of Apple devices, but in this instance, maybe you need to make an exception for this specific use. Just a thought. From what I've seen, Dragon is not very suitable for Mac.

Another idea--not as helpful as Dragon, but--is to try to use Google's dictation, via GoogleDocs. Perhaps, if you used GoogleVoice, to get your material together, you could then make it through the remainder, using Word, etc. at that future point. The GoogleVoice only works, I'm told, if you are dictating while you're online--so you need a Net connection (which makes sense), but if you're working from home or an office, that should not be unduly difficult, I'd think.

I'm sorry--your physical needs are so specific, it's hard to envision a simple way to get there from here. The software becomes somewhat moot, if we can't think of some way to get your material, notes, etc., into it without keyboards, mice, and the like. Sorry I'm not more help.

Hitch

[HarryT]

Getting back to the topic of research-heavy writing (which I do a lot of for the various assignments on my Egyptology degree), I just use plain old Word. As I'm researching the subject I'm creating my bibliography, and making notes on each source, with each source starting a new page. When I start doing my actual writing, I start it at the top of the same Word file, and as I use each note I've made, I change its colour to red, so I can easily see what I've used, and what I haven't. At the end, I delete all the notes (keeping them in a separate file, of course) leaving just my bibliography at the end of the file. Works well for me.

[BookCat]

I've gradually read through all of this thread and been amazed by how helpful peeps have been. However, every time a new solution is suggested, the OP says something like: "yes, but there's this other problem ..." When other members address that problem, the OP comes up with another "Yes, but ...".

If doing the work is that unfeasible and the OP cannot work with any of the solutions suggested, it may be time for her to consider whether she is capable, on many levels, of doing the work in hand.

I don't mean to sound unkind. If the work is important, the option of purchasing a PC and a recent copy of DNS seems like a good one.
....Yes, but ...

[Hitch]

Hey, Drib?

Did you buy the Novel Factory software? (or is that off the table for you, as it's not Mac?)

Me being me...queen of software I will likely never use (n.b.: we are getting ms's in .scriv, however, these days...), I did buy it. I wanted to compare notes, but if you didn't...??

Hitch

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by Hitch

Hey, Drib?

Did you buy the Novel Factory software? (or is that off the table for you, as it's not Mac?)

Me being me...queen of software I will likely never use (n.b.: we are getting ms's in .scriv, however, these days...), I did buy it. I wanted to compare notes, but if you didn't...??

Hitch

Sorry, but I decided not to pursue it further, due it's being non-mac.

At one time - I guess about 2 years ago? - I had part of my hard drive formatted as a PC drive and had a version of Windows on it, but I did away with that when I needed more space.

How did you like it?

[Hitch]

Originally Posted by Dr. Drib

Sorry, but I decided not to pursue it further, due it's being non-mac.

At one time - I guess about 2 years ago? - I had part of my hard drive formatted as a PC drive and had a version of Windows on it, but I did away with that when I needed more space.

How did you like it?

So far, not bad at all. I'm still researching through it, so I want to hold off commenting until I'm a bit more au fait. (I try not to be a Ywriter or Power Structure or Word+ bigot!). I'll post back when I'm a bit deeper into it.

Did away with your VM? Hmph. You should have just gotten a bigger HD. :-)

Hitch

[Dr. Drib]

Originally Posted by Hitch

So far, not bad at all. I'm still researching through it, so I want to hold off commenting until I'm a bit more au fait. (I try not to be a Ywriter or Power Structure or Word+ bigot!). I'll post back when I'm a bit deeper into it.

Did away with your VM? Hmph. You should have just gotten a bigger HD. :-)

Hitch

Yeah, I did away with it.

About 5 months ago, I replaced my drive with a 1 TB drive, but I also keep my calibre library on it (for faster access). It's also a place for temporary FLAC file placement, until I decide to put the files on a 128 gig card installed into my Astell & Kern AT100 II DAP player.