new Kindle - web browsing on Wifi only?

[mewmartigan]

I didn't put this is the main "new kindle thread" but I noticed on Amazon's site, under the description, this little tidbit:

New WebKit-Based Browser
Kindle's new web browser is based on WebKit to provide a better web browsing experience. Now it's easier than ever to find the information you're looking for right from your Kindle. Experimental web browsing is free to use over Wi-Fi. The experimental web browser is currently not available for some customers outside the U.S. Check Your Country.


I wonder if they are concerned about eating too much data over 3G without having people pay for it?

[bear4hunter]

With FW 2.5.3 web browsing worked on international Kindles.
With the newest 2.5.6 not any more.

So yes, Amazon cripples the devices once again, instead of really getting international contracts with providers/carriers.

This is a "downgrade" I'm not happy about! And yes, as long as they don't have carriers around the world, they probably pay too much for the browsing (and the social networking!!) features. Again, the new K3 International will be crippled! I was thinking of pre-ordering one today, but as long as I pay the full price for a crippled device, no way!

I gave them credit with Kindle 2, bought it at the day it was released internationally, knowing internet wouldn't work, but hoping they would enable it within a reasonable time - with 2.5.3 I even thought they finally did, but 2.5.6 just pisses me off again.

[jj2me]

Good catch, but I think (hope) it's just ambiguous wording, because the Kindle page also says this:

New WebKit-Based Browser – Free 3G web browsing (experimental)

Yeah, I'm also thinking they want to limit 3G web browsing, and that was an impetus for them to include WiFi.

[jj2me]

bear4hunter,
I asked Andrys Basten about this on her Kindleworld blog, and she answered and supplied two links.

Regarding web browsing, she said "so all of this will need clarifying later except that 56 countries are rather sure-things at this point, while 9 others are not."

[andrys]

Originally Posted by jj2me

bear4hunter,
I asked Andrys Basten about this on her Kindleworld blog, and she answered and supplied two links.

Regarding web browsing, she said "so all of this will need clarifying later except that 56 countries are rather sure-things at this point, while 9 others are not."

bear4hunter,
I've listed the 9 countries for which 3G web-browsing has been showing as not-available on their product pages but which involved Kindle owners who could web browse nevertheless, with v2.5.2 (often being enabled with that -- and it probably was as a byproduct of being able to do Facebook/Twitter highlighted-passage forwarding).

However, of those 9 countries, I've heard from people in Portugal, The Netherlands, and Austria whose webbrowsing (and Facebook/Twitter sends) were no longer enabled when v2.5.3 was installed.

Germany is one of those 9 countries and have not yet heard (that I remember) a problem there but today, someone wrote that the product page for Kindle 2 in Germany still shows 'not available' while the product page for Kindle 3 in Germany *no longer* shows unavailability. It could be that the K2 page was not updated or that the method of access (capabilities mentioned in the TechRepublic Teardown I link to) works with K3 but not K2 though I doubt that.

Am still trying to monitor this at http://bit.ly/kwkweb and have not gone through the K3 product pages for those 9 countries yet and probably won't have time until later tonight.

- Andrys

[bear4hunter]

so andrys,
do you think amazon will fix this with an update (2.5.7?) - it doesn't make sense, K2i worked with 2.5.3 - so I think it's a software thing - not hardware related.

I checked both german K3 pages at amazon, both are showing

Social networking features are currently not available for your country.

And the DXG page states:

Blogs, social networking features, and the experimental web browser are currently not avalable for your country. You will have free access to Wikipedia if wireless is available.

So, there might be a difference with the SIM-Card (if any) used? But why did it work with 2.5.3 then? Or is it just a different wording for saying the same?

Edit:
Is just got a reply from CS:

I'm sorry to know you after the software update you're not being able to use experimental web browser on your Kindle. Currently blogs, social networking features, and the experimental web browser are not available for your country (Germany). You will have free access to Wikipedia if wireless is available.

Does that make sense? To me, no, because with 2.5.3 it WAS available!

[andrys]

Originally Posted by bear4hunter

so andrys,
do you think amazon will fix this with an update (2.5.7?) - it doesn't make sense, K2i worked with 2.5.3 - so I think it's a software thing - not hardware related.

It's software controllable, yes. The thing is that newspaper reports have always shown they could not, for a long time, come to terms with wireless providers in Germany -- meaning keeping the price charged them to something doable for them. Maybe they have done something for the K3. More on that further down.

So there have been about 9 countries in which web browsing (which is the expensive part of 3G in a case like that) was enabled on Kindles that went overseas though the product pages said the browser was not available in those countries).

In most cases I've read, it was version 2.5.3 that cut out the browser that was available with v2.5.2 but it could be they handled this differently in the various countries outside the U.S.

I checked the K3 pages at amazon, and Germany is currently the only one of the 9 countries that does not show the web browser as not-available for the K3.

The K2 stays the same for Germany -- no web browser, no social networking as of tonight. Who knows, re later?

The K3 3G/WiFi product-page for Germany, however, says this now:
"Social networking features are currently not available for your country."

Why only that statement, I have no idea. It's odd that the browser is not said to be UNavailable for the new K3 in Germany while the feature of forwarding of highlighted passages to Facebook/Twitter is noted to be not available.

But here is what the K3 pages say for the other 8 countries which have not had official web-browser availability -- these include Austria, Denmark, France, Greece, The Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden:

"Access Wikipedia via Whispernet on the experimental web browser. Access other websites like Google via a Wi-Fi connection. Blogs can also be downloaded via a Wi-Fi connection."


And the DXG page (which doesn't have the WiFi capability) says this for Germany:
"Blogs, social networking features, and the experimental web browser are currently not avalable [sic] for your country. You will have free access to Wikipedia if wireless is available."

So, there might be a difference with the SIM-Card (if any) used? But why did it work with 2.5.3 then? Or is it just a different wording for saying the same?

I think it has more to do with deals with wireless providers (or the lack of them). Customer Service can enable wireless remotely -- at least turn them On in individual circumstances, I've read.
But re the default setting in the firmware, it seems v2.5.3 tended to turn that off if Wireless had been enabled, though I think you had one that worked with v2.5.3.

We might get an answer of sorts sometime next week.

[ChaoZ]

I'm in Canada and this new tidbit of information raises some concerns.
Half of my reason for getting the Kindle would be for occasional web access (gmail and the like) via 3G. I know it's slow, but access is access.

Right now, for Canada, it says:

Access Wikipedia via Whispernet on the experimental web browser. Access other websites like Google via a Wi-Fi connection. Blogs can also be downloaded via a Wi-Fi connection.

If Amazon is killing this feature in the K3 and going Wifi only for web outside of Wikipedia, I may as well just find a used K2i.

[bear4hunter]

I got a new reply from amazon CS, it looks like I'm talking chinese or something, they don't give me a satisfying explanation, as to why it worked with 2.5.3, if it was not available?!

here 's what i wrote

DXG: Blogs, social networking features, and the experimental web browser are currently not avalable for your country. You will have free access to Wikipedia if wireless is available.

K3: Social networking features are currently not available for your country.

Are they really different in that matter? I still believe it's software (firmware) related, so DXG (and K2) should offer blogs and web browsing as well.

And most important: with 2.5.3 it worked on K2!!! So I don't understand, why you say "currently not available" for my country!

The reply:

I have reviewed our previous correspondence and your account. Please understand that the information provided in our last message is correct.

Currently blogs, social networking features, and the experimental web browser are not available for your country (Germany). You will have free access to Wikipedia if wireless is available.

You can check it out on our website.
(Followed by a link to the K2 page, and a description how to check...)

Now, apart from them not understanding that I want an explanation, how it worked with 2.5.3 if it should not have, there is another thing that disturbs me: CS checked my account.

My Kindle is registered to my secondary mailaccount, I only put books on it through USB
My purchases are done with my primary mailaccount and credit card, and send to K4PC. I strip the DRM, and than copy the book to my Kindle.

Now, I will see and try over the weekend, if registering my Kindle with my primary mailaccount will have some effect.

On that matter an OT question: reason for having two adresses, is that I sometimes change the book title (mobi2mobi.exe or the like), like "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" -> "Millenium 1 - The Girl ...." - this way the Kindle sorts better IMHO. Of course, I don't want books to show up twice, or once on my device and once under archived items. Any experience / advice on that?

I can only speak for myself. But I bought a Kindle to read books. The 3G was added to allow convenient downloading of books, especially for those without computers or tech saavy. Anything else was a gracious and clearly stated "experimental" gift which Amazon can continue or not depending on costs. Personally, I do NOT want to pay more for my Kindles or my Amazon ebooks in order to support high 3G costs incurred by those who think an electronic ebook reader should be used to surf the internet via 3G. Cellular providers charge dearly for that service, so why should it be free on a device purposed for reading? I wish Amazon would limit internet access through 3G and charge extra to those who insist on using their reader to surf the internet with 3G so that my books don't start costing way more than they already do. WiFi, on the other hand, would push the costs to the individual and could/should allow for unlimited web surfing without driving up the costs for everyone else.

[andrys]

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

I'm in Canada and this new tidbit of information raises some concerns.
Half of my reason for getting the Kindle would be for occasional web access (gmail and the like) via 3G. I know it's slow, but access is access.

Right now, for Canada, it says:

Access Wikipedia via Whispernet on the experimental web browser. Access other websites like Google via a Wi-Fi connection. Blogs can also be downloaded via a Wi-Fi connection.

If Amazon is killing this feature in the K3 and going Wifi only for web outside of Wikipedia, I may as well just find a used K2i.

I checked all the countries known to not show the web browser as 'not available' to them and they all say the same thing.

The wording is more like encouragement to use WiFi for the rest of it as it is faster. I'd call Kindle customer support to get their confirmation but they're not likely going to wrest away 3G browsing from the 56 countries. But they need to be clearer about that now. So I'll be sending in a question too.

All the countries seem to say the same thing now. Germany, it seems, has been added to officially enabled-for-wireless countries as I saw a sentence about it on their site, along with other countries enabled but it has altogether different wording.

They just changed wording on all the pages overnight to include the fact that WiFi is useable and I think it's not subtle encouragement to use that instead where it's available. It'll save them money.

But, again, I'm going to ask about this wording that just went up.

Thanks.

[andrys]

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

I'm in Canada and this new tidbit of information raises some concerns.
Half of my reason for getting the Kindle would be for occasional web access (gmail and the like) via 3G. I know it's slow, but access is access.

Right now, for Canada, it says:

Access Wikipedia via Whispernet on the experimental web browser. Access other websites like Google via a Wi-Fi connection. Blogs can also be downloaded via a Wi-Fi connection.

If Amazon is killing this feature in the K3 and going Wifi only for web outside of Wikipedia, I may as well just find a used K2i.

ChaoZ,
I think all the newly worded product pages put up today are confused.

A guy from Israel asked about the WiFi ordering he was doing and WiFi accessing of the Kindlestore. I looked up the WiFi (only) model doublechecking it was WiFi only. When I looked up Israel (and later, Germany) I saw that the product page for both of these talked only about WHISPERNET and never mentioned WiFi.

I've sent a note into Customer Svc for whatever good that might do but I alerted them.

[Atilla]

Originally Posted by ChaoZ

I'm in Canada and this new tidbit of information raises some concerns.
Half of my reason for getting the Kindle would be for occasional web access (gmail and the like) via 3G. I know it's slow, but access is access.

Right now, for Canada, it says:

Access Wikipedia via Whispernet on the experimental web browser. Access other websites like Google via a Wi-Fi connection. Blogs can also be downloaded via a Wi-Fi connection.

If Amazon is killing this feature in the K3 and going Wifi only for web outside of Wikipedia, I may as well just find a used K2i.

I am also from Canada. If this is the case, there is no point getting the 3G model for me.
If I am interpreting the fine print correctly, they can start charging a fee for 3G web access any time they please.
The only guaranteed free access on 3G is buying books and wiki.

[andrys]

Originally Posted by Atilla

I am also from Canada. If this is the case, there is no point getting the 3G model for me.
If I am interpreting the fine print correctly, they can start charging a fee for 3G web access any time they please.
The only guaranteed free access on 3G is buying books and wiki.

The fine print will always give them that right -- it's standard practice.
And has been since the start (in 2007).

But their marketing now heavily emphasizes 'free 3G' with no hourly or annual fees so they have to stand behind that until at least the next model or if they need to drop the browser, which is not likely.

[SensualPoet]

I reside in Toronto, have a Kindle 2i, ver 2.5.3, and have had (and still have) open 3G access. I had it Friday as well in St John's, Newfoundland.