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Old 11-15-2016, 05:47 PM   #1
zoldier
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Kindle previewer does not convert as good as Calibre? Help!

Hi all and thanks for reading this post.

I am trying to get help converting my epub file to .mobi using any oficcial Amazon tool (kindle previewer or kindlegen) as I contacted to KDP support unsuccessfully.

As you can see in the attachement I have 3 files:

1) Issue_test.epub that would be the original file that contains the html and css code

2) Issue_test_converted_by_calibre.mobi: This is a mobi file that preserver, exactly the format for the 3 pages that epub file contains.
As its name indicates, it was converted from attached epub file to .mobi using Calibre that is not an official tool to publish a .mobi in Amazon

3) Issue_test_converted_by_kindle_previewer.mobi: This is a mobi file that is not preserving the format for the 3 pages that epub file contains.
However, as you can see in the previous file, the .mobi file generated with a non oficcial tool is able to do it.
The problem is that I need to fix this issue if I want to publish a book with the same page format in Amazon .

How can I fix this issue? Could any one kindly provide an alternative html code that fixes the issue after kindle previewer conversion?


Thanks in advance!

Note: I also tried to use kindlegen directly to convert the epub file with the same unsuccessfully result.
I have included a comparative screen-shoot where you can see one example about the differences
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Issue_screen_shoot.jpg
Views:	119
Size:	150.8 KB
ID:	153031  
Attached Files
File Type: epub Issue_test.epub (3.7 KB, 72 views)
File Type: mobi Issue_test_converted_by_calibre.mobi (48.7 KB, 58 views)
File Type: mobi Issue_test_converted_by_kindle_previewer.mobi (34.2 KB, 67 views)
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Old 11-15-2016, 07:39 PM   #2
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I am not an expert, but here is my analysis.

Your CSS has problems. "width" is misspelled "widht". "vertical-align: center;" should be "vertical-align: middle;". Those should be corrected, but are not the cause of your problem.

Your use of the "height" property to control the height of table cells isn't recommended by Amazon. Amazon Kindle Publishing Guidelines version 2016.1, section 9.3.2 (Formatting Paragraphs): "The height property should only ever be applied to images in reflowable books."

It should work with newer devices, but older Kindles will display the book without your desired spacing. (If that matters to you.)

ETA: And if your book is converted to KFX format by Amazon, which is not under your control, it will automatically tighten up the vertical spacing. Trying to achieve a fixed layout in a reflowable book doesn't always work.

Last edited by jhowell; 11-15-2016 at 08:22 PM.
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Old 11-16-2016, 05:27 PM   #3
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Thanks for your response jhowell, I really appreciate it.

It is curious but I loaded the .mobi file converted using calibre in a old Kindle and one Kindle paperwhite and in both cases the result is exactly the same as the original epub. For this reason I wondering why KindleGen/Kindle Previewer is not able generate the same .mobi as calibre does because Kindle ebook devices can reproduce it as it is expected.

The conclusion is that Kindle Previewer is not converting in a good way :-(
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Old 11-16-2016, 10:13 PM   #4
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A .mobi file produced by kindlegen contains both an old-style Mobipocket format supported by older kindle devices and a KF8 format with more advanced formatting options supported by newer devices.

According to the Mobipocket Reader documentation the "height" attribute is not allowed for table rows. Looking at the files you provided it appears that kindlegen has correctly stripped this out, but the calibre conversion has left it in.

The Kindle Previewer renders the height, making the calibre conversion look more like you desire. But an actual Kindle device may not perform the same way when given this incorrectly formatted MOBI file from calibre.
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Old 11-17-2016, 06:09 AM   #5
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My goodness, does this really work?: "vertical-align: middle;"

People have been asking how to do that for ages on the KDP forum, and I've always thought it couldn't be done.

On the subject of Calibre doing a better job than Kindle Previewer of creating a Kindle book file, isn't that rather like saying that the Rolex being sold at the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel is better than the one from Switzerland? I don't use KP, as it happens; I upload to the KDP and let it convert there. But of twenty-six books, I've never had a validated epub fail to convert as expected. (Well, once or twice I did get a double cover.) I use Flight Crew in Sigil, and when the cake is baked, I run it through epubcheck online.
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Old 11-17-2016, 08:55 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notjohn View Post
My goodness, does this really work?: "vertical-align: middle;".
That is the CSS naming convention: left-center-right horizontally, top-middle-bottom vertically.

"vertical-align: middle" isn't all that useful in this case since it is the default vertical alignment for content in table cells anyway.

(ETA: That is why "vertical-align: center" appears to work when it really doesn't. "center" is an invalid value for "vertical-align" and is ignored, so the default value is used instead.)

Last edited by jhowell; 11-17-2016 at 09:08 AM.
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Old 11-17-2016, 08:56 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notjohn View Post
My goodness, does this really work?: "vertical-align: middle;"

People have been asking how to do that for ages on the KDP forum, and I've always thought it couldn't be done.

On the subject of Calibre doing a better job than Kindle Previewer of creating a Kindle book file, isn't that rather like saying that the Rolex being sold at the entrance to the Lincoln Tunnel is better than the one from Switzerland? I don't use KP, as it happens; I upload to the KDP and let it convert there. But of twenty-six books, I've never had a validated epub fail to convert as expected. (Well, once or twice I did get a double cover.) I use Flight Crew in Sigil, and when the cake is baked, I run it through epubcheck online.

nj:

Of course it works--IF your entire html file is a single "page." In other words, if you tried this in a typical chapter, it would never work, as the "top" and bottom and middle/center of the file would be quite a bit different than the desired result.

Plus, it would crash and burn in KF7, and possibly in some other cases. So, "works" is a relative term.

That's why nobody ever says it works--because 99% of the hearers would get it wrong, thinking you could do it, for example, on a new-chapter page.

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Old 11-18-2016, 04:49 PM   #8
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Aw, shucks.
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Old 11-19-2016, 11:07 AM   #9
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Aw, shucks.
Life, sweetie, is just a series of highs, scrunched in-between crushing disappointments. :-) You'll have to live without automagically (vertically) centered chapter heads. For now, anyway.

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Old 11-19-2016, 11:29 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhowell View Post
The Kindle Previewer renders the height, making the calibre conversion look more like you desire. But an actual Kindle device may not perform the same way when given this incorrectly formatted MOBI file from calibre.
This is not related jut to Kindle Previewer. I loaded calibre converted .mobi in two Kindle devices (old one and paperwhite bought last year) and both devices rendered it as I expected and how it looks like on Kindle previewer.

Based in this testing, my conclusións are:
1) Calibre converts from epub to .mobi in a different way that Kindle previewer does
2) Kindle previewer applies a 'wrong' convert policy because they think that their devices can not render something that they can or maybe Kindle previewer has a 'bug'

From my point of view, there is just one solution.
1) Decompile .mobi file converted with Calibre, because I know that it really Works on Kindle devices.
2) Get the HTML/css code from this 'decompile' file
3) Try to apply this code to my epub
4) Convert this new epub versión using Kindle previewer and load the result.

If this Works ... voilà, we have the solution
If not ... there are no solution because Kindle previewer is the "guilty" of this bad conversión and you do not have an alternative if you want to publish in Amazon.

What do you think? Could any one help me to 'decompile' this .mobi file? I saw a couple of tolos in this fórum to do it but they are implemented in Phyton and it is a 'new world' for me

Thanks in advance!
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Old 11-19-2016, 12:21 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoldier View Post
This is not related jut to Kindle Previewer. I loaded calibre converted .mobi in two Kindle devices (old one and paperwhite bought last year) and both devices rendered it as I expected and how it looks like on Kindle previewer.

Based in this testing, my conclusións are:
1) Calibre converts from epub to .mobi in a different way that Kindle previewer does
2) Kindle previewer applies a 'wrong' convert policy because they think that their devices can not render something that they can or maybe Kindle previewer has a 'bug'

From my point of view, there is just one solution.
1) Decompile .mobi file converted with Calibre, because I know that it really Works on Kindle devices.
2) Get the HTML/css code from this 'decompile' file
3) Try to apply this code to my epub
4) Convert this new epub versión using Kindle previewer and load the result.

If this Works ... voilà, we have the solution
If not ... there are no solution because Kindle previewer is the "guilty" of this bad conversión and you do not have an alternative if you want to publish in Amazon.

What do you think? Could any one help me to 'decompile' this .mobi file? I saw a couple of tolos in this fórum to do it but they are implemented in Phyton and it is a 'new world' for me

Thanks in advance!
Question:

You loaded your test MOBIs at Amazon, and downloaded the Preview mobis, to ensure that the results are what you expect--is that right?

Because what you see, prior to uploading the file(s) to the KDP cannot be relied upon, for something like this, as an accurate view. The KF7 supports for the table elements were very, very poor. And there are still millions of KF7 devices in the world.


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Old 11-19-2016, 12:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zoldier View Post
I loaded calibre converted .mobi in two Kindle devices (old one and paperwhite bought last year) and both devices rendered it as I expected and how it looks like on Kindle previewer.
I agree with what Hitch wrote. There have been more than a dozen e-ink Kindle models going back to 2007, each of which has multiple firmware versions that can be running on it. There is no way that you could have done enough testing to say that the calibre conversion works on all (or even most) "old" Kindle devices.


ETA: I think that you should learn to live with the fact that your exact desired formatting will not be present on every single kindle device. Even on devices where your formatting works it can be broken just by setting a very large font size.

The older kindle devices that can handle only the original MOBI format are a shrinking minority. As long as the formatting is good enough to be easily readable on those devices I don't see any compelling reason to put more effort into supporting them.

Last edited by jhowell; 11-19-2016 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 11-19-2016, 03:17 PM   #13
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I agree with what Hitch wrote.
Naturally! It's because I'm always right. Just ask my Crew and Mr. Hitch, they'll tell you.

Quote:
There have been more than a dozen e-ink Kindle models going back to 2007, each of which has multiple firmware versions that can be running on it. There is no way that you could have done enough testing to say that the calibre conversion works on all (or even most) "old" Kindle devices.
I would never say that WE know what works, in every instance, on every Kindle, and we do this day-in and day-out. Not only is it hard to keep track of the original specs, the upgrades (which stil happen, mind you!) make it bloody impossible.

Just yesterday, I turned to someone in the office, trying to remember if that bug in the Voyage, about image sizes >50%, was fixed or not. I mean...we test books daily, and hell, who can keep all that stuff in their head?


Quote:
ETA: I think that you should learn to live with the fact that your exact desired formatting will not be present on every single kindle device. Even on devices where your formatting works it can be broken just by setting a very large font size.

The older kindle devices that can handle only the original MOBI format are a shrinking minority. As long as the formatting is good enough to be easily readable on those devices I don't see any compelling reason to put more effort into supporting them.
Well, I wouldn't assume that the older eInks are all headed to the eReader Graveyard just yet. I was shocked, only a few years ago, to realize that the vast bulk of the members of the DorothyL list (at that time, and perhaps still, the largest list of mystery readers in existence) STILL had K2's. Yeah, verily. So, those DXes, that were still on sale, a mere year or so ago...I wouldn't count on those just poofing out of existence, like Harry Potter waved his wand.

(And maybe I'm wrong--it's happened before--but I'm still pretty damn sure that that table coding, the height elements, specifically, probably will NOT work on the KF7's, and honestly, I'm not too sure about the iOS/Droid apps, either.)

Just my $.02.

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Old 11-22-2016, 06:46 AM   #14
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So, those DXes, that were still on sale, a mere year or so ago...I wouldn't count on those just poofing out of existence, like Harry Potter waved his wand.
It seems improbable that Amazon was still having them built, six years after launch, so most likely they were overstock. It also seems improbable that Amazon would sell a device with a battery likely to die at any moment. This seems a huge vote of confidence in those early batteries.

There's a guy in Ebay selling a white Kindle 2 keyboard for $44.99, tee hee. Who would buy that but a formatter, I wonder? I figured I could pick one up for five or six dollars....
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Old 11-22-2016, 12:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
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It seems improbable that Amazon was still having them built, six years after launch, so most likely they were overstock. It also seems improbable that Amazon would sell a device with a battery likely to die at any moment. This seems a huge vote of confidence in those early batteries.

There's a guy in Ebay selling a white Kindle 2 keyboard for $44.99, tee hee. Who would buy that but a formatter, I wonder? I figured I could pick one up for five or six dollars....
You know, it's hard to know. I do know that they were amazingly popular; we run across them with clients all the time. I don't discount how well all those devices held up--I still have my K2. The very first K2 I ever bought, the one that basically ended up "creating" my business. I went to PG to dl books, found that they were unsatisfactory to me, and started formatting them myself, back in the mobipocket days.

And that sucker STILL WORKS.

There are a lot of folks out here--I'd say it's more prevalent in the older generations--that don't throw something out, if it still works. You know, the old "if it ain't broke..."


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