MobileRead Administration: New years reading categories

[caleb72]

I also agree with ditching one of the classic slots especially as the other literary book club has kicked off.

But I'm going to ride my own pony and suggest a theme which is specific to independent authors. Eg. Free-for-all genre restricted to independent/self-published authors.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

I would not mind once a year doing either Westerns or Pulp Fiction.

What defines "Pulp Fiction"?

Originally Posted by caleb72

I also agree with ditching one of the classic slots especially as the other literary book club has kicked off.

But I'm going to ride my own pony and suggest a theme which is specific to independent authors. Eg. Free-for-all genre restricted to independent/self-published authors.

Free & Independent works for me!


As for "Classic", we could try to put a definition on that by original publication date, and (maybe) popularity.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by caleb72

But I'm going to ride my own pony and suggest a theme which is specific to independent authors. Eg. Free-for-all genre restricted to independent/self-published authors.

I suspect indie/self-published would turn out to be another SFF month and we already have one of each so that would make three.

Off the top of my head, what I'd like is to retain two classic months, but make one pre-20th century and one 20th-century only--if a change is felt necessary.

On the subject of classics. Yes, the term does mean of a certain age and of a level of quality and importance that enough people still know the book and will nominate it and vote for it. There is no such thing as an “instant classic.” That's just a book someone really likes a lot and thinks will achieve the status of a classic. In the early 1970s Jonathan Livingston Seagull sold millions of copies, but looking back at it know it would be an embarrassment to read. I'd say to be a classic the book should have been published at least 50 years ago. I like the idea of two months devoted to classics or I think we will find the book club selections will be dominated by recent books. Robinson Crusoe is considered to have been the first of the novel genre, meaning we have at least 300 years of literature to draw from.

I would not mind including an children's/YA category, but then to my mind that includes some very good books an adult could also enjoy. Laughing Boy by Oliver LeFarge, Johnny Tremain by Esther Forbes, and Rifles for Watie by Harold Keith come to mind of the top of my head. I read these the first time in late grade school, but after just completing Riders of the Purple Sage here as a monthly selection I see no great incongruity there.

Looking at the list of monthly categories I do have a comment. July Fantasy (trees/magic) why the trees/magic qualifier? Surely fantasy extends far beyond just that?

Anyway looking at the list it does not look at all broken. If I was to suggest a new category it would be a category for plays, that is works originally written for performance on stage. That could include everything from Shakespeare, through Tennessee Williams, to Mamet and beyond.

[WT Sharpe]

Originally Posted by AnemicOak

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/sho...&postcount=155

At least I think that's it.

That appears to be the 2010 list. I'm not sure where the 2011 list is.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

I suspect indie/self-published would turn out to be another SFF month and we already have one of each so that would make three.

Off the top of my head, what I'd like is to retain two classic months, but make one pre-20th century and one 20th-century only--if a change is felt necessary.

So then the December classic could be from authors who are still alive and writing?

[benham]

Is this an opt in and out thing, or is it more in for a penny, in for a pound? If I want to opt out of sci-fi and YA, is that okay to participate in the others?

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by Hamlet53

On the subject of classics. Yes, the term does mean of a certain age and of a level of quality and importance that enough people still know the book and will nominate it and vote for it. There is no such thing as an “instant classic.”

WRONG! Harry Potter is an instant classic. The series is important enough that it's managed to get a lot of kids and adults back to reading. Lots more people will know of Harry Potter then say AK (May's book). The quality of some of the old classics is a lot worse then any of the Harry Potter books so really, quality is not a tell-tale sign of a classic based on what is called classic these days.

That's just a book someone really likes a lot and thinks will achieve the status of a classic. In the early 1970s Jonathan Livingston Seagull sold millions of copies, but looking back at it know it would be an embarrassment to read. I'd say to be a classic the book should have been published at least 50 years ago. I like the idea of two months devoted to classics or I think we will find the book club selections will be dominated by recent books. Robinson Crusoe is considered to have been the first of the novel genre, meaning we have at least 300 years of literature to draw from.

I do think Jonathan Livingston Seagull is a classic. But to you, it doesn't hold up well over time. A lot of what are called classics do not hold up well over time. This is why is a really bad category for even one month a year. The definition is too broad and then it gets a poor definition to shrink it down, it fails big time.

I would not mind including an children's/YA category, but then to my mind that includes some very good books an adult could also enjoy. Laughing Boy by Oliver LeFarge, Johnny Tremain by Esther Forbes, and Rifles for Watie by Harold Keith come to mind of the top of my head. I read these the first time in late grade school, but after just completing Riders of the Purple Sage here as a monthly selection I see no great incongruity there.

If we did have YA as the December category, there would be no reason not to nominate any of the books you've mentioned.

Looking at the list of monthly categories I do have a comment. July Fantasy (trees/magic) why the trees/magic qualifier? Surely fantasy extends far beyond just that?

I think that (trees/magic) is there to help differentiate fantasy from science fiction. We don't have to nominate just fantasy books about trees and/or magic.

Anyway looking at the list it does not look at all broken. If I was to suggest a new category it would be a category for plays, that is works originally written for performance on stage. That could include everything from Shakespeare, through Tennessee Williams, to Mamet and beyond.

The list is not completely broken. But when we struggle one month with Classic, why then have to struggle yet again. It's the worst category and it's not properly defined. A classic is not just a book written by a dead author. It's not just a book that is in the public domain. It is not a book written at least 50 years ago. The Harry Potter example I posted above is true. Harry Potter is a classic series. The only criteria it don't meet (given your definition) is it's not 50 years old. Many classics are dry and dull. I recently read the classic Rendezvous with Rama By Arthur C. Clarke and found it dry and not all that interesting a story. But I did enjoy Harry Potter much more. I also feel that Harry Potter would keep better over time. I also feel that a book like The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy is a classic. A classic doesn't have to be an old book. There are such things as modern classics.

As for plays, I do think that could be a difficult selection.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by benham

Is this an opt in and out thing, or is it more in for a penny, in for a pound? If I want to opt out of sci-fi and YA, is that okay to participate in the others?

You are free to participate (or not) whenever you would like. You do not have to join in every month.

[issybird]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

So then the December classic could be from authors who are still alive and writing?

Sure! If the author wrote a book of classic quality published before 1960. After all, Irving Berlin lived to see Alexander's Ragtime Band enter the public domain.

Originally Posted by JSWolf

The list is not completely broken. But when we struggle one month with Classic, why then have to struggle yet again. It's the worst category and it's not properly defined. A classic is not just a book written by a dead author. It's not just a book that is in the public domain. It is not a book written at least 50 years ago. The Harry Potter example I posted above is true. Harry Potter is a classic series. The only criteria it don't meet (given your definition) is it's not 50 years old. Many classics are dry and dull.

I disagree with so much of this. I don't struggle with Classic as a concept or as a category, nor with reading books from it. Nor is it the worst category, not to me anyway; that would be reserved for science fiction. De gustibus and all that. Harry Potter's not a classic, at least not yet. (And I don't think Harry Potter is well written, either.) I'm willing to admit that a lot of classics are dry and dull, but so are a lot of books taken as a whole. Don't vote for a dry and dull one. Problem solved. Now science fiction, there's dullness for you. [/irony font]

As for the definition of classic, I think Justice Potter Stewart's definition of pornography holds: I know it when I see it. I think most people do. There might be some quibbling at the margins, but the canon is standard enough for nominating/voting purposes.

[GA Russell]

Originally Posted by Nyssa

What defines "Pulp Fiction"?

Here is an extensive list of authors that we could consider for a pulp fiction month.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulp_magazine

We could also consider websites that specialize in pulp fiction such as http://www.munseys.com/

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by issybird

Sure! If the author wrote a book of classic quality published before 1960. After all, Irving Berlin lived to see Alexander's Ragtime Band enter the public domain.



I disagree with so much of this. I don't struggle with Classic as a concept or as a category, nor with reading books from it. Nor is it the worst category, not to me anyway; that would be reserved for science fiction. De gustibus and all that. Harry Potter's not a classic, at least not yet. (And I don't think Harry Potter is well written, either.) I'm willing to admit that a lot of classics are dry and dull, but so are a lot of books taken as a whole. Don't vote for a dry and dull one. Problem solved. Now science fiction, there's dullness for you. [/irony font]

As for the definition of classic, I think Justice Potter Stewart's definition of pornography holds: I know it when I see it. I think most people do. There might be some quibbling at the margins, but the canon is standard enough for nominating/voting purposes.

The question that we don't seem to be able to answer is how long does a book have to be out before it can be said to be a classic? If we can answer this, then I think we can do away with all the other silly definitions like it has to be public domain. I think 50 years may be too long for modern classics. I would like to suggest we use say 20 years for a classic. As for the second definition, I think that's quite appropriate.

The problem with classics is that a lot of them do not hold up well and thus should no longer be classed as a classic.

[Nyssa]

Originally Posted by GA Russell

Here is an extensive list of authors that we could consider for a pulp fiction month.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulp_magazine

We could also consider websites that specialize in pulp fiction such as http://www.munseys.com/

Hmm, so would that mean that ALL of Lovecraft's works are considered Pulp Fiction since most (if not all) appeared in the Weird Tales magazine?

[caleb72]

Originally Posted by issybird

I suspect indie/self-published would turn out to be another SFF month and we already have one of each so that would make three.

That could well be true. We could of course make it not free-for-all genre but still indie.

There's a few indie books on my wish list that are not science fiction or fantasy.

How about any indie book EXCEPT those in the SFF genres.

[Elfwreck]

Originally Posted by caleb72

How about any indie book EXCEPT those in the SFF genres.

If it's limited to new self-publications, rather than re-releases of formerly published books that the author's reclaimed the rights for, the SFF skew might not be so bad. (That starts getting into complicated rules for what should be simple categories, though.)

If some months are categorized by content-theme (mystery, romance) and other months are categorized by publication status (classic, indie) there's going to be room for crossover.

I think "classic" should have a definition; potentially "public domain" or "would be public domain under the rules it was first published under." I'm not sure it's a classic if there's no evidence people care to read it 50 years later. (I'm sure the Harry Potter books will be marked as a noteworthy cultural phenomenon in another 50 years; I'm not sure people will still be pushing them at kids as Important Literature.)

"Indie" probably needs some kind of definition as well. "Self-published" is easy; "Indie" is not. How small does a publishing company have to be to be "independent?"

Another potential category is "new books"--first published within the last 3 years. Or within the last year.