Where have all the guys gone?

[Tarana]

First, for the OP's comment, I just looked at my Cloud Library and the first 50 books in New Adult Fiction were written by women, all but one in the Ghost category were women, and all the Action/Adventure books were written by men. So yeah, I can see where that might happen. The new audiobook and detective listings were random male/female.

As to the argument of what men and women read, ask any marketer and they will tell you with proof that men and women read different things along a gender line. There is some splashover, but political correctness won't change it. I see it in my own experience of what others choose, although I admit I am only looking at my age group (50+) and older.

For many years, I too only read detective type books written by men. Why? The women writers did poor research on basic policing. Better writers came forward over time. But I totally agree with the comment - men get hung up on factual errors that simply should not be there. That's a poor writer who does that. Mystery cozies are full of romance writers who do zero research. Why women tolerate it is beyond me.

[astrangerhere]

Originally Posted by Tarana

men get hung up on factual errors that simply should not be there. That's a poor writer who does that.

Only men get hung up on this? Mistakes like this are limited to cozies? Seriously?

I've been a practicing attorney for years and you know who gets more legal things wrong than any genre writer I know? John Grisham.

I'm not saying that these mistakes aren't there. Where I have real issues is the seeming assumptions being made here that only female authors make mistakes and only in certain genres. This just smells an awful lot like gatekeeping to me.

[Apache]

I have never chosen to read a book based on the authors race, gender or any other difference. I want to read books that I consider to be well told stories. I wouldn't care if the author was a Salamander if it could write a good story. As both a child and an adult I was reading fiction by Andre Norton, Leigh Brackett, C.J. Cherryh, Octavia Butler, James Tiptree, jr., Elizabeth Moon, and Lois McMaster Bujold. Also remember Mary Shelly wrote Frankenstein.
Apache

[issybird]

Originally Posted by Tarana

For many years, I too only read detective type books written by men. Why? The women writers did poor research on basic policing. Better writers came forward over time. But I totally agree with the comment - men get hung up on factual errors that simply should not be there. That's a poor writer who does that. Mystery cozies are full of romance writers who do zero research. Why women tolerate it is beyond me.

Great Caesar's Ghost! I can even refer to this last month's discussion at the New Leaf Book Club here where it was women who detected and objected vociferously to the errors and outright copying done by the male author of the selected book. In fact, I don't attach any significance to its being women, but I'm offering it as a rebuttal.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Tarana

As to the argument of what men and women read, ask any marketer and they will tell you with proof that men and women read different things along a gender line.There is some splashover, but political correctness won't change it.

Just like misuse of the phrase "Political Correctness" doesn't have the power to to dismiss arguments that people want to paint with that particularly worn out brush.

And you forget that book marketing has as much (maybe more) to do with what books a publisher wants to sell to people, as it does with what many people might want to buy. The "gender line" when it comes to reading (or any habits or preferences) is very wide and very gray.

Originally Posted by Tarana

I see it in my own experience of what others choose, although I admit I am only looking at my age group (50+) and older.

And therein lies a big part of the problem: little groups of people looking at the habits of their little tribes and thinking they have their finger on the pulse of the entire clan.

Originally Posted by Tarana

But I totally agree with the comment - men get hung up on factual errors that simply should not be there.

That's nonsense. Even if you managed to find a majority in your sampling that it applied to, that would never represent "men." And it wouldn't count the women who were annoyed by factual errors that weren't polled.

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

And you forget that book marketing has as much (maybe more) to do with what books a publisher wants to sell to people, as it does with what many people might want to buy. The "gender line" when it comes to reading (or any habits or preferences) is very wide and very gray.

Okay, but we're talking about Overdrive here, not publishers. I don't think Overdrive really cares which authors'/publishers' books are going to move. They know exactly how many of each book they have lent out, so they have all the stats they need on overall borrowing habits right at their fingertips. I'm sure they can easily figure out what kind of books should be featured to drive up the borrowing rate.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by rkomar

They know exactly how many of each book they have lent out, so they have all the stats they need on overall borrowing habits right at their fingertips. I'm sure they can easily figure out what kind of books should be featured to drive up the borrowing rate.

And what exactly would that say about "what women read" or "what men read"? Unless, of course, women borrowing ebooks from Overdrive are entirely representative of "All Women Who Read Books"?

Even if we're talking simple majorities here, that's a far cry from the sweeping, insulting, stereotypical generalizations being slung around here willy-nilly.

You (rhetorical) want to say there's a large contingent of women who buy/borrow/read romance novels? Have at it. I won't argue. How could I? But the leap from that to "Women read for X and Men read for Y (or Women can't write Y well)" does not follow. Not even a little bit.

[4691mls]

I am a woman who reads mysteries. I would be the first to admit I don't know much about guns or standard police procedures so it's entirely possible there could be errors I wouldn't notice.

However, if there are errors on topics I am familiar with - there's no way the character could drive from Town A to Town B in an hour, or the main character is driving a car like mine but in a color that was never available in real life, this does bug me. This kind of error is especially annoying in books written in recent times when the author could have quickly and easily checked these things online.

I do avoid what I consider "silly cozies" where the protagonist is a woman who owns a food- or craft-related business while somehow managing to solve all the local murders. That whole concept seems like a big error to me

[PurpleStar]

Originally Posted by 4691mls

I am a woman who reads mysteries. I would be the first to admit I don't know much about guns or standard police procedures so it's entirely possible there could be errors I wouldn't notice.

However, if there are errors on topics I am familiar with - there's no way the character could drive from Town A to Town B in an hour, or the main character is driving a car like mine but in a color that was never available in real life, this does bug me. This kind of error is especially annoying in books written in recent times when the author could have quickly and easily checked these things online.

I do avoid what I consider "silly cozies" where the protagonist is a woman who owns a food- or craft-related business while somehow managing to solve all the local murders. That whole concept seems like a big error to me

LOL Can't argue with you there about the big error but I read them for a nice light read. I'm not too nit picky about things unless it's something really stupid.

[Penforhire]

An author's gender is just about the last thing I pay attention to when I'm reading something. Factual errors are a pet peeve of mine but gender has no bias there. Two dimensional characters and thinly written relationships are not more common among male authors, rather just among weak authors.

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

And what exactly would that say about "what women read" or "what men read"? Unless, of course, women borrowing ebooks from Overdrive are entirely representative of "All Women Who Read Books"?

Even if we're talking simple majorities here, that's a far cry from the sweeping, insulting, stereotypical generalizations being slung around here willy-nilly.

You (rhetorical) want to say there's a large contingent of women who buy/borrow/read romance novels? Have it. I won't argue. How could I? But the leap from that to "Women read for X and Men read for Y (or Women can't write Y well)" does not follow. Not even a little bit.

Overdrive doesn't have to understand anything but the numbers. The numbers may be telling them to feature those books written by women, whatever the underlying reason. So, I'm not convinced the featured books are the product of any kind of bias or agenda on Overdrive's part (thinking back to the original post), other than to try to make the most money they can.

I did describe that women are predominant at my branch. So, that might explain why books popular among women may be featured the most. I personally haven't tried to explain anything about why it's that way. Others are trying, but to be fair, that's kind of what this thread was started for.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by rkomar

So, I'm not convinced the featured books are the product of any kind of bias or agenda on Overdrive's part (thinking back to the original post), other than to try to make the most money they can.

I can agree with that.

[darryl]

I wonder if pay for placement is at work on Overdrive's featured books? To be quite honest I would be surprised if it was not. It is a time honoured tradition for publishers to push those books they want to sell. But, as I said in an earlier post, no one has to buy these recommendations.

[rkomar]

Originally Posted by darryl

I wonder if pay for placement is at work on Overdrive's featured books? To be quite honest I would be surprised if it was not. It is a time honoured tradition for publishers to push those books they want to sell. But, as I said in an earlier post, no one has to buy these recommendations.

Yes. It's possible that more library loans mean fewer sales. It seems that some publishers are looking at it that way. They must be somewhat conflicted over getting more money from Overdrive and not injecting enough "friction" in the borrowing process. Paying money to get more library loans doesn't strike me as something the publishers would go for.

[darryl]

Originally Posted by rkomar

Yes. It's possible that more library loans mean fewer sales. It seems that some publishers are looking at it that way. They must be somewhat conflicted over getting more money from Overdrive and not injecting enough "friction" in the borrowing process. Paying money to get more library loans doesn't strike me as something the publishers would go for.

True. But perhaps visibility is. If there are huge waiting lists on an ebook there will be a certain percentage of people who decide to buy that ebook or a paper copy of it. It must be a huge temptation to some to have a book you really want to read effectively held up before your eyes every time you visit Overdrive. And if they do get you at a weak moment, a purchase is only a click or two away.

I doubt the publishers concerned really know themselves how library ebooks impact and the optimum strategy. Some are quite obviously experimenting. Amazon seems to be dealing with the matter by simply not making their ebooks available to libraries at all. Amazon also showed no interest in acquiring Overdrive or preventing it being acquired by Rakuten. To me this speaks volumes. Whilst I doubt the larger publishers will abandon libraries, I expect they will seek to profit more from them by limiting the number of lends and/or imposing expiry dates and of course charging very high prices. If, as I expect, Indies become increasingly prominent and libraries look for access to these titles, how will Amazon react? We certainly live in interesting times.