Concerns About Sony's Religious Intolerance - Page 2

Xenophon · 01-23-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Croker

At the risk of appearing glib - no. Not even slightly.

Not the least bit disrespectful. Nor do I think it shows anything whatsoever about Sony except that they are trying to include (samples of) current bestselling books on their reader.

Xenophon

msmith · 01-23-2009, 04:43 PM

I appreciate everyone's opinion. I completely believe in free speech, and the right someone has to say what they wish. And I, of course, have no problem with Sony or anyone else selling the book in their respective stores.

But Mr. Dawkins has said some very inflammatory things towards people of faith. My personal opinion is that it was a poor and curious choice for the 9 or so excerpts available on the Reader.

Regarding Zelda's comments, the Left Behind series is not attacking a particular group, although it may not be a good "general" choice for the Reader, even though they were #1 bestsellers. Mein Kampf is a very extreme example of how a book defames a particular group, and would be an unacceptable choice for preloaded content on a Reader. To a much lesser degree, Mr. Dawkins is going after people of faith.

All I am saying is that it offended me (obviously not everyone), and I would have hoped that Sony could have chosen more topic neutral choices for their excerpts. That's all. People can have the freedom to buy the book all day long, anywhere that sells it. I just thought it was a poor choice to preload on the Reader IMHO. I certainly respect that others have differing opinions.

I appreciate everyone's comments.

Andurian · 01-23-2009, 06:34 PM

Having read the book, I do agree that it would be a curious choice for inclusion based solely on its content. It presents a pretty scathing attack on organized religion and, after all, there are a lot of people in their customer base who fall into that category. As many others have noted, however, it was a best-seller and Dawkins likely was happy to have its opening chapter included for free.

Its also worth noting that rather than being a ranting vitriolic attack, the book is carefully argued. Realistically it has to be, since most people reading it won't have an inclination to agree with his position.

Nate the great · 01-23-2009, 06:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pdurrant

According the the the World Factbook, The United States are about 84% religious, with 12% 'unaffiliated' and 4% with no religion.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/us.html

The UK is significant fewer religious people -- 76.8% are religious, with 7.3% 'not stated' and 15.5% 'No religion'.

http://www.statistics.gov.uk/CCI/nug...ank=1&Rank=176

Minor quibble:

The correct conjugation is United States is, not are. It's been that way since the US Civil War.

msmith · 01-23-2009, 06:52 PM

You are absolutely correct Andurian. But there are MANY best sellers and I am sure that any author would simply LOVE to get that sort of free exposure/advertisement. Again, regardless if you agree with my opinion, why would Sony choose that particular book out of all of the non-inflammatory best sellers that are available? It was a very curious choice.

desertgrandma · 01-23-2009, 07:15 PM

I'm sorry, I would have just deleted it and gone on with my life. I think this is a complete overraction.

Its like TV............I"ve stopped worrying about all the crap on it, and just watch what I want, and feel comfortable with.

If organized religion can't withstand some ridicule, maybe its not so strong in its beliefs.

Sony is free to choose whatever samples they want to load.

You are free to use the 'delete' button.

mazzeltjes · 01-23-2009, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msmith

You are absolutely correct Andurian. But there are MANY best sellers and I am sure that any author would simply LOVE to get that sort of free exposure/advertisement. Again, regardless if you agree with my opinion, why would Sony choose that particular book out of all of the non-inflammatory best sellers that are available? It was a very curious choice.

It's a dark conspiracy to lure
prs owners away from their faith

lilac_jive · 01-23-2009, 08:09 PM

Not trying to be offensive, but all I can say is...LOLWUT?

I mean, it's one of 10 or so excerpts that Sony puts in, and they change all of the time. It's going to be whatever books the publishers want to push and pay some kind of money to include their book, I'm sure.

I doubt any book they stuck in there would offend me at all.

tompe · 01-23-2009, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andurian

Having read the book, I do agree that it would be a curious choice for inclusion based solely on its content. It presents a pretty scathing attack on organized religion and, after all, there are a lot of people in their customer base who fall into that category. As many others have noted, however, it was a best-seller and Dawkins likely was happy to have its opening chapter included for free.

Its also worth noting that rather than being a ranting vitriolic attack, the book is carefully argued. Realistically it has to be, since most people reading it won't have an inclination to agree with his position.

And everybody should read the first chapter so we can stop having strange and incorrect claims everywhere that Einstein was religious.

I think most people actually reading the book will have an inlcination to agree with it even in the US. In secular countries like Sweden there is no doubt about it.

ShortNCuddlyAm · 01-23-2009, 08:39 PM

Disrespectful? No. Not in the least. It's a marketing gimmick, and I long ago discovered the best way to deal with them was to ignore them.

Do you boycott magazines and newspapers in case they carry an excerpt or an advert for a product you may not agree with? Do you get off a bus or train if the adverts on it conflict with your personal beliefs?

I strongly suspect the ONLY reason Sony put that chapter, along with all the other sample chapters, on some of it's devices (it wasn't on mine) is to try and tempt people into buying it, and into their online store in general, thus generating them more revenue. No conspiracy, except the usual capitalist one to get us to part with our money

Maybe they managed to get a good deal with the publisher for that title for a period, which is why it was included.

Andurian · 01-23-2009, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompe

And everybody should read the first chapter so we can stop having strange and incorrect claims everywhere that Einstein was religious.

I think most people actually reading the book will have an inlcination to agree with it even in the US. In secular countries like Sweden there is no doubt about it.

I wouldn't say they are strange claims, though as you (and Dawkins) note they are incorrect. I think people claiming that someone is religious isn't so odd when they use the word "God" regularly. I think its more normal to use it in a realist sense, rather than a metaphorical one.

And after reflecting, you're probably right. Readers probably are pretty self-selecting, so people actually reading the book are likely to be atheists to begin with, just as people reading the Koran are likely to be Muslims, independent of the larger percentages across society.

jason.rs · 01-23-2009, 09:30 PM

I actually liked that Sony included an excerpt from this book. The choice shows favor to no particular religion, which is somewhat refreshing. I will tell you, being a Hindu and living in the US, I constantly see things with a Christian bias. I don't protest or make a big deal about it, I just go with the flow. Is it really worth the time and frustration to worry about something so trivial? I have to agree with mazzeltjes, Sony has no grand scheme to proselytize athiesm

As for The God Delusion, it's not that venomous or intolerant.

DixieGal · 01-23-2009, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ShortNCuddlyAm

Disrespectful? No. Not in the least. It's a marketing gimmick, and I long ago discovered the best way to deal with them was to ignore them.

Do you boycott magazines and newspapers in case they carry an excerpt or an advert for a product you may not agree with? Do you get off a bus or train if the adverts on it conflict with your personal beliefs?

I strongly suspect the ONLY reason Sony put that chapter, along with all the other sample chapters, on some of it's devices (it wasn't on mine) is to try and tempt people into buying it, and into their online store in general, thus generating them more revenue. No conspiracy, except the usual capitalist one to get us to part with our money

Maybe they managed to get a good deal with the publisher for that title for a period, which is why it was included.

The book I'm currently reading, World Without End, was a pre-loaded sample. When I bought the whole book from Sony, it was $12, but anywhere from $16 to $26 everywhere else. So AM hit the nail on the head by guessing that the samples are good marketing.

RickyMaveety · 01-23-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by msmith

Does anyone else feel that it was disrespectful for Sony to do this?

In a word. "No."

pepak · 01-24-2009, 01:47 AM

1) Any book will seem "intolerant" to someone (there is no shortage of people who believe that "tolerant" is synonymous to "matching my preferences"). If Sony placed the Bible on the Reader, it would be muslim, atheists and others who would complain.

2) Is it a big deal anyway? I mean, how many people actually read the demo books on their Reader? I know I checked them out to see how they look, then backed them up adn replaced them with other books more suited to my tastes.

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01-23-2009, 04:43 PM	#17
msmith Member Posts: 14 Karma: 38 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: 505 reader	I appreciate everyone's opinion. I completely believe in free speech, and the right someone has to say what they wish. And I, of course, have no problem with Sony or anyone else selling the book in their respective stores. But Mr. Dawkins has said some very inflammatory things towards people of faith. My personal opinion is that it was a poor and curious choice for the 9 or so excerpts available on the Reader. Regarding Zelda's comments, the Left Behind series is not attacking a particular group, although it may not be a good "general" choice for the Reader, even though they were #1 bestsellers. Mein Kampf is a very extreme example of how a book defames a particular group, and would be an unacceptable choice for preloaded content on a Reader. To a much lesser degree, Mr. Dawkins is going after people of faith. All I am saying is that it offended me (obviously not everyone), and I would have hoped that Sony could have chosen more topic neutral choices for their excerpts. That's all. People can have the freedom to buy the book all day long, anywhere that sells it. I just thought it was a poor choice to preload on the Reader IMHO. I certainly respect that others have differing opinions. I appreciate everyone's comments.

01-23-2009, 06:34 PM	#18
Andurian You really should try it! Posts: 57 Karma: 137 Join Date: Nov 2008 Device: PRS-500	Having read the book, I do agree that it would be a curious choice for inclusion based solely on its content. It presents a pretty scathing attack on organized religion and, after all, there are a lot of people in their customer base who fall into that category. As many others have noted, however, it was a best-seller and Dawkins likely was happy to have its opening chapter included for free. Its also worth noting that rather than being a ranting vitriolic attack, the book is carefully argued. Realistically it has to be, since most people reading it won't have an inclination to agree with his position.

01-23-2009, 06:52 PM	#20
msmith Member Posts: 14 Karma: 38 Join Date: Jan 2009 Device: 505 reader	You are absolutely correct Andurian. But there are MANY best sellers and I am sure that any author would simply LOVE to get that sort of free exposure/advertisement. Again, regardless if you agree with my opinion, why would Sony choose that particular book out of all of the non-inflammatory best sellers that are available? It was a very curious choice.

01-23-2009, 07:15 PM	#21
desertgrandma Enjoying the show.... Posts: 14,270 Karma: 10462841 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Arizona Device: A K1, Kindle Paperwhite, an Ipod, IPad2, Iphone, an Ipad Mini & macAir	I'm sorry, I would have just deleted it and gone on with my life. I think this is a complete overraction. Its like TV............I"ve stopped worrying about all the crap on it, and just watch what I want, and feel comfortable with. If organized religion can't withstand some ridicule, maybe its not so strong in its beliefs. Sony is free to choose whatever samples they want to load. You are free to use the 'delete' button.

01-23-2009, 08:09 PM	#23
lilac_jive Grand Sorcerer Posts: 5,870 Karma: 27376 Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Pennsylvania Device: PRS-505	Not trying to be offensive, but all I can say is...LOLWUT? I mean, it's one of 10 or so excerpts that Sony puts in, and they change all of the time. It's going to be whatever books the publishers want to push and pay some kind of money to include their book, I'm sure. I doubt any book they stuck in there would offend me at all.

01-23-2009, 08:39 PM	#25
ShortNCuddlyAm WWHALD Posts: 7,879 Karma: 337114 Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Mitcham, Surrey, UK Device: iPad. Selling my silver 505 here	Disrespectful? No. Not in the least. It's a marketing gimmick, and I long ago discovered the best way to deal with them was to ignore them. Do you boycott magazines and newspapers in case they carry an excerpt or an advert for a product you may not agree with? Do you get off a bus or train if the adverts on it conflict with your personal beliefs? I strongly suspect the ONLY reason Sony put that chapter, along with all the other sample chapters, on some of it's devices (it wasn't on mine) is to try and tempt people into buying it, and into their online store in general, thus generating them more revenue. No conspiracy, except the usual capitalist one to get us to part with our money Maybe they managed to get a good deal with the publisher for that title for a period, which is why it was included.

01-23-2009, 09:30 PM	#27
jason.rs Junior Member Posts: 9 Karma: 10 Join Date: May 2008 Device: Sony PRS-505	I actually liked that Sony included an excerpt from this book. The choice shows favor to no particular religion, which is somewhat refreshing. I will tell you, being a Hindu and living in the US, I constantly see things with a Christian bias. I don't protest or make a big deal about it, I just go with the flow. Is it really worth the time and frustration to worry about something so trivial? I have to agree with mazzeltjes, Sony has no grand scheme to proselytize athiesm As for The God Delusion, it's not that venomous or intolerant.

01-24-2009, 01:47 AM	#30
pepak Guru Posts: 610 Karma: 4150 Join Date: Mar 2008 Device: Sony Reader PRS-T3, Kobo Libra H2O	1) Any book will seem "intolerant" to someone (there is no shortage of people who believe that "tolerant" is synonymous to "matching my preferences"). If Sony placed the Bible on the Reader, it would be muslim, atheists and others who would complain. 2) Is it a big deal anyway? I mean, how many people actually read the demo books on their Reader? I know I checked them out to see how they look, then backed them up adn replaced them with other books more suited to my tastes.