Can self-promotion go to far?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by BexBits

Gee, I like the self-promotion forum--it lets me very efficiently see what is being offered, all in one space that I use at my leisure. I've found some books I really enjoyed by browsing through there.

It's a bit hackneyed but true to say that if you don't want to read those threads, don't. It's not like they sneak up and you and force you to click on them.

One of those threads waited for me outside and beat me up while all the other threads laughed and pointed!

[BexBits]

Originally Posted by Moejoe

One of those threads waited for me outside and beat me up while all the other threads laughed and pointed!

Didn't your mother tell you to stay out of strange forums after dark?

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by BexBits

Didn't your mother tell you to stay out of strange forums after dark?

My mother was the one who pointed them in my direction!!! Oh, mammy, what have you done to your little boy? (in Al Jolson voice).

[montsnmags]

Originally Posted by BexBits

Gee, I like the self-promotion forum--it lets me very efficiently see what is being offered, all in one space that I use at my leisure. I've found some books I really enjoyed by browsing through there.

It's a bit hackneyed but true to say that if you don't want to read those threads, don't. It's not like they sneak up and you and force you to click on them.

I think problems arise when, let's say, an author repeatedly "bumps" their work to the top, to avoid dropping off the front page. To me, while the motivation is understandable, the consequence (aside from any annoyance potential readers might feel) is that fellow authors' threads get pushed down and off. I suspect that, aside from any annoyance some as readers might feel, as MR authors some might not consider this..."fair", let's say, use of the resource. Not, perhaps, in the spirit of community generally felt.

I think there are quite a lot of folk who, like you, use that subforum like browsing a bookstore. Which, to my mind, is great for all involved. And, as mentioned, there are features meant to assist in customising MR to personal preference so that you can see what you want to see.

Cheers,
Marc

[J. Strnad]

I suppose writers could all be like Emily Dickinson and write their books and then shove them in a drawer forever. More likely, though, you do want people to read your work, and that means you have to promote.

There was a bit on the original Bob Newhart Show where Bob, a psychiatrist, was treating a shy door-to-door salesman who would go up to people's doors and, too shy to knock, would just wait for them to come out.

Writing a book and not letting people know it's out there is like being that shy salesman. You gotta knock on those doors.

Non-fiction writers have it easier. They can talk about the subject of their book and not seem to be pushing their book every time they open their mouth. They can do interviews about the subject, give lectures, the whole works.

Fiction writers have a problem: Talking about their book always involves talking about the process, what gave them the idea, what inspired certain characters, etc. I couldn't go on the radio and say, "Well, Oprah, the problem a lot of people face when their loved ones come back from the dead is...."

MobileRead makes it easy to ignore certain book promotions or to ignore all of them if you want. I enter the Author Promo forum kind of expecting a guys-in-plaid-suits-and-white-belts atmosphere.

[BexBits]

Originally Posted by montsnmags

I think problems arise when, let's say, an author repeatedly "bumps" their work to the top, to avoid dropping off the front page. To me, while the motivation is understandable, the consequence (aside from any annoyance potential readers might feel) is that fellow authors' threads get pushed down and off. I suspect that, aside from any annoyance some as readers might feel, as MR authors some might not consider this..."fair", let's say, use of the resource. Not, perhaps, in the spirit of community generally felt.

Good points. I have a high tolerance for just glancing at and over threads I don't care about but monopolizing the front page is a legitimate issue.

I'm also not crazy about those little gems of promotion by someone who obviously joined just to post them and gives no sign of realizing there is any discussion to join here.

I think there are quite a lot of folk who, like you, use that subforum like browsing a bookstore. Which, to my mind, is great for all involved. And, as mentioned, there are features meant to assist in customising MR to personal preference so that you can see what you want to see.

Cheers,
Marc

I love the way New Posts can be customized. I hadn't seen that at any other forum but have used it to great advantage here. Kudos to whoever made sure Mobileread offers that feature.

[joycedb]

You probably have every female author now wondering, "Gee, is it me she's talking about?" I know it can't be me because I don't promote enough and my lackluster sales prove it.

Joyce

[basschick]

the problem is that, like every inexperienced business, authors don't "get" how to get the word out. the truth is that having their books in their sigs, perhaps with links or deals, and taking part on the board would bring them a lot more positive attention, but most people don't understand selling, marketing or branding, and by spamming or hit and run posting, newcomers tend to do themselves more harm than good.

[Moejoe]

Originally Posted by basschick

the problem is that, like every inexperienced business, authors don't "get" how to get the word out. the truth is that having their books in their sigs, perhaps with links or deals, and taking part on the board would bring them a lot more positive attention, but most people don't understand selling, marketing or branding, and by spamming or hit and run posting, newcomers tend to do themselves more harm than good.

The hit-and-runners don't bother me as much as the ones that stick around and try to game unrelated threads. What I really don't get is how many haven't done their homework or devised a marketing strategy. If you're going to sell a book, then you need to think of it as a product in a business, you need to target your writing to an audience, you need to do what the publishers do (spit) and look at what's selling and what isn't and what you can write and what you cannot.

You can have freedom or money, but never both.

[GraceKrispy]

I personally *love* the self-promoters. I love that board, I'm glad we have it. It has introduced me to many books I probably wouldn't have looked twice at. I actually pretty much dig through smashwords based on the blurbs authors self-promote on MR.

That being said, I don't like to see the same post bumped repeatedly by the author, and I miss the other posts that have been made (because they went down the list to the next page).

For me, anyway, the self-promotion capability on MR has really opened me up to new authors and adventures, and I'm much appreciative of that.

[lene1949]

Originally Posted by joycedb

You probably have every female author now wondering, "Gee, is it me she's talking about?"
Joyce

Uhmmm... One female author has deleted a lot of her posts today... She might think it's her being talked about..

[mr ploppy]

Originally Posted by queentess

I've downloaded a few books that were self-promoted and/or self-published, but by the time I get around to reading them I've long since forgotten where I obtained the book. It would be very helpful if the author put in a page near the beginning of the book (in case I don't like the book and don't make it to the end) and near the end of the book (to remind me when I finish it) WHERE to go to leave a review.

At the end, yes, along with a request for donations if you downloaded it for free somewhere. But I don't see any point putting it at the beginning. Any review you got from someone who didn't even finish your book is likely to be a negative one, and wouldn't really be fair. They might be complaining about something that resolved itself a little bit further on than they got up to.

[ficbot]

Originally Posted by GraceKrispy

That being said, I don't like to see the same post bumped repeatedly by the author, and I miss the other posts that have been made (because they went down the list to the next page).

Ditto---as I said, I don't mind in principle that authors self-promote and I do enjoy hearing about new books. My only issue was the ones who do it really badly because it just makes them and their book come off so poorly.

[Vintage Season]

Originally Posted by ficbot

Ditto---as I said, I don't mind in principle that authors self-promote and I do enjoy hearing about new books. My only issue was the ones who do it really badly because it just makes them and their book come off so poorly.

All right, here is an idea:

What if every new thread in Author Self-Promotions also allowed the author to include a single thumbnail cover image for their book, to be put into random rotation in a forum header strip (showcasing perhaps half a dozen titles at a time), so that if someone saw an interesting cover, they could click on that cover and be taken to the relevant link?

A few caveats would have to be enforced:

• There would be a simple way for users who didn't want to see the header strip to turn it off, from within the User CP.
• The rotation would be random, but thorough. No repetition would occur until every thumbnail in the random queue had been displayed, at which point the queue would be re-randomized and the process would begin afresh.
• An author could only start one thread per title. (This would also encourage authors to start a new thread if they had a new title.)
• Any author determined to be gratuitously bumping his/her own thread would not only lose the image and link for the title(s) they bumped, but be banned from adding any future thumbnails for the banner rotation, until and unless they could satisfy the moderators that the bumping pattern was a non-aggressive newbie mistake, never to be repeated on these forums.

- M.

[GeoffC]

Originally Posted by Vintage Season

All right, here is an idea:

What if every new thread in Author Self-Promotions also allowed the author to include a single thumbnail cover image for their book, to be put into random rotation in a forum header strip (showcasing perhaps half a dozen titles at a time), so that if someone saw an interesting cover, they could click on that cover and be taken to the relevant link?

A few caveats would have to be enforced:

• There would be a simple way for users who didn't want to see the header strip to turn it off, from within the User CP.
• The rotation would be random, but thorough. No repetition would occur until every thumbnail in the random queue had been displayed, at which point the queue would be re-randomized and the process would begin afresh.
• An author could only start one thread per title. (This would also encourage authors to start a new thread if they had a new title.)
• Any author determined to be gratuitously bumping his/her own thread would not only lose the image and link for the title(s) they bumped, but be banned from adding any future thumbnails for the banner rotation, until and unless they could satisfy the moderators that the bumping pattern was a non-aggressive newbie mistake, never to be repeated on these forums.

- M.

It is an idea with merit .... drop this post into Feedback so the decision makers can react upon it