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02-14-2013, 02:33 PM | #61 |
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02-14-2013, 02:59 PM | #62 |
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Respectfully stating that you refuse to answer is not lying by omission. In the USA, a court can compel you to answer the government's questions; a federal, state or local law enforcement officer representing the government cannot. They can still arrest you, of course, but need reasonable suspicion to do this, and you can get a court to review whether your arrest was justified. In contrast, DHS says they don't need any suspicion to take your device from you at the border.
Frankly, I'm surprised these basic civil rights are news to so many US citizens . . . |
02-14-2013, 03:27 PM | #63 |
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No, unless a court has compelled you to tell the "whole truth." Even there, it is tricky. If you say it is A, B, C, E, F and neglect to mention D you will usually be ok unless specifically questioned on D.
Second, you can always say "that is all I can say without conferring with my lawyer." The explicit threat law enforcement has is well "we will have to detain you while we investigate." They can always do that. The trick is to say, No, I don't want to go to the station, are you arresting me or charging me, and if so I want a lawyer. Likewise I like the "No, I don't think there is any reason for you to search my case, and you do not have my permission to do it." Sure they can search it or seize it, because they got the firepower, but you are better off legally. |
02-14-2013, 04:40 PM | #64 |
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Hmmm. I wonder if the 5th Amendment is also moot in the 'constitution-free' zone.
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02-14-2013, 06:43 PM | #65 | ||||
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Has it been done before? What happens if nothing is found? Do the owners get a new car? Quote:
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02-15-2013, 02:24 AM | #66 | |
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Yes, in the USA, the Border Patrol can "order you" to divulge your password. No, they cannot physically force you to do this and if they arrested you for non-compliance, you would have recourse to the courts. I believe the 5th amendment would protect US citizens in this case. There are also precedents in some federal districts that say they can take your property but that CBP cannot prevent a US citizen from re-entering her or his own country. It's true that if the "bad guys" (e.g. those with kiddie porn on their computers) follow the recommendations of the EFF guide I posted (e.g. by using remote servers to back up their data and bringing only "clean" HDDs across the border), they, too can avoid detection. I don't support kiddie porn but that doesn't mean I'd be OK with you changing the law and Constitution to make it legal for CBP to use thumbscrews in order to force me to access my Dropbox for their perusal. |
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02-15-2013, 04:40 AM | #67 |
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I cross borders
best not have sensitive documents on computer store on internet use encrypted sat phone if no isp no cell on computer have 1 document only protected with password "guest" big complex and interesting and technical document but not sensitive not secret satisfies searcher- happy found something for read can not understand but happy important not have information of specific country visit in protected document so avoid trouble- not spy others methods- not discuss |
02-15-2013, 10:13 AM | #68 | ||
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02-15-2013, 04:40 PM | #69 |
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Well, that concept taking the US meaning do not exist in British law for example (See the wikipedia entry for due process). It totally annoys me in science fiction TV-series (like Babylon 5) that they use internal US concepts like due process probably because the writer thought they were universal.
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02-15-2013, 06:29 PM | #70 |
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02-15-2013, 11:39 PM | #71 | |
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People often think of the border as a line, and it is, for some purposes. For DHS purposes, the border extends well back into US territory. I imagine they are hoping to find intelligence jackpots on someone's hard drive. (Intelligence on illegal drug or other smuggling, or terrorist operations. Maybe even illegal immigration, but that's probably less vital to them.) If they find purchased but de-DRMed e-books on my PC or tablet, I guess they can bust me if they want to. I doubt they are looking now, but if they win the drug war, slow illegal immigration to the extent they want to, and terrorism becomes a non-issue, maybe things like software or books or movies or music will move up the list of things they'll grab you for. |
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02-16-2013, 12:58 AM | #72 | |
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02-16-2013, 01:01 AM | #73 |
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02-16-2013, 02:04 AM | #74 |
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02-16-2013, 08:21 AM | #75 | ||
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Like I said, they've got bigger issues on their mind than a few possibly bootlegged MP3s and ePubs. |
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