Proof reading errors? Arggg!

[haertig]

Oh darn, I probably should have used "ack", reserving "arrrggghhh" for seafaring ruffian exclamations.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by haertig

Oh darn, I probably should have used "ack", reserving "arrrggghhh" for seafaring ruffian exclamations.

I like "AAUGH!"

[Ripplinger]

Nothing takes me out of the moment of reading a good book than running into those types of errors. My brain instantly starts screaming "how could they miss an entire word in that sentence" or "the period is missing" and on and on.

It's true that OCR is better than it ever was, but it's still not perfect and it will never replace proofreading by an intelligent human being. And I don't mean glancing at pages here and there, it must be read cover to cover by someone who can pay attention to details.

It's one thing if you get it from Project Gutenberg (although I've seen some very high quality books from there that would put some publishers to shame). But that publishers charge for books where it's evident they weren't even read by a monkey just outrages me.

I'd immediately return it for a full refund.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by Ripplinger

It's true that OCR is better than it ever was, but it's still not perfect and it will never replace proofreading by an intelligent human being. And I don't mean glancing at pages here and there, it must be read cover to cover by someone who can pay attention to details.

Not just read cover to cover, but read cover to cover AGAINST THE ORIGINAL.

[ZodWallop]

Originally Posted by Ripplinger

It's true that OCR is better than it ever was, but it's still not perfect and it will never replace proofreading by an intelligent human being. And I don't mean glancing at pages here and there, it must be read cover to cover by someone who can pay attention to details...

I'd immediately return it for a full refund.

Originally Posted by Catlady

Not just read cover to cover, but read cover to cover AGAINST THE ORIGINAL.

I admit those are ideal. But then lots of the books that I buy where I see those errors are old mid-listers who likely aren't going to make large piles of money from their e-books (Ripplinger's Rick Hautala, f'rinstance). In those cases I'm glad the book is available, period. I don't know what the added expense of a good proofreader is. For all I know, hiring one might be cost prohibitive and the book may not be released at all.

I tend to be a lot more generous with those books. I might tell the publisher, but I don't return the book. Maybe I'm part of the problem.

[haertig]

I won't be returned many books. Well, that's a lie - I *will* be returning them, since most come from libraries via Overdrive these days. But I won't be getting any money back.

It's just annoying to be jarred out of the story by errors in the text. One minute I'm exploring some Incan ruin in the rain forests of Peru, and the next I'm wondering "how could they have been so stupid as to miss this error?" To a lessor extent, I am bothered by questionable research. I remember wondering one time, while the book's hero was fighting off a killer whale, "Do killer whales really chomp at you fiercely with razor sharp teeth?" I always thought killer whale teeth were rather rounded and blunt. I ended up pausing reading for a bit so I could go and Google a picture of killer whale teeth. (Actually, their teeth are rounded, but pointy, however not "razor sharp" like a piranhas teeth. And apparently they are more "bite and hold" style creatures then frenzied chompers when trying to eat you.) I remember one book, where a bad guy was "thrown backwards" as "the cartridge slammed into his chest". What, did they throw the thing at him? Usually it's only the bullet that goes downrange, not the entire cartridge. And you're not going to be thrown backwards, unless the cartridge they heaved at you happened to be one of those giant ones from a deck gun on a Navy battleship. It just kind of takes you out of the story for a moment...

[DiapDealer]

I can see both sides of the equation, here. While too many errors will throw me off my game and can cause me to stop reading a particular book (and will perhaps cause me to ask for a refund if the issues are egregious enough), I also understand that publishers are never going to throw new-book resources at backlist conversion projects.

Expecting them to have each and every backlist title carefully converted to electronic format, and then lovingly proofed and corrected (and proofed again) by a human eyes from cover-to-cover isn't really realistic. Doing so would result in an ebook no one could afford to buy. They already sunk those expenses into the original print-only publication.

So I think everyone is basically doing what they're supposed to be doing. Publishers are getting backlist titles to market for a price people will be willing to pay, and readers (hopefully) are teaching them what kind of quality they expect for those prices.

I've found the occasional error/typo in nearly every book I've ever read (p and e). So OCR errors don't really anger me any more than the "normal" ones do. It's strictly the frequency of the errors that will decide if I can continue (or if I should ask for a refund), rather than the kind of error.

To be perfectly honest: missed grammatical errors in new release books will get my dander up quicker than OCR errors in a backlist title will. And I find those all the time too. *shrug*

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I admit those are ideal. But then lots of the books that I buy where I see those errors are old mid-listers who likely aren't going to make large piles of money from their e-books (Ripplinger's Rick Hautala, f'rinstance). In those cases I'm glad the book is available, period. I don't know what the added expense of a good proofreader is. For all I know, hiring one might be cost prohibitive and the book may not be released at all.

I tend to be a lot more generous with those books. I might tell the publisher, but I don't return the book. Maybe I'm part of the problem.

Much the same here. I will let the author/publisher know about the errors but I won't return the book. If really annoying and I have the time, I will correct the errors in my personal copy. As you mentioned, for a lot of the older mid-listers, I'm just happy to see an ebook version.

[HarryT]

Originally Posted by rcentros

Isn't "arggghh" supposed to end with an "h" or multiple "h's"?

Yes, a classic case of poor proof-reading!

[ferenetin]

Not without exaggeration ... each book undergoes quality checks and somehow happens in the final stage. There is no ideal product

[Ripplinger]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Not just read cover to cover, but read cover to cover AGAINST THE ORIGINAL.

Yes, you're right, I forgot to add that part. The few books I've scanned, that's exactly what I did, read against a copy of the original scan still on my PC. In fact, even when I've completed the ebook, I keep those original scans just in case a question comes up later, so I have them for reference.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by ZodWallop

I admit those are ideal. But then lots of the books that I buy where I see those errors are old mid-listers who likely aren't going to make large piles of money from their e-books (Ripplinger's Rick Hautala, f'rinstance). In those cases I'm glad the book is available, period. I don't know what the added expense of a good proofreader is. For all I know, hiring one might be cost prohibitive and the book may not be released at all.

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

I also understand that publishers are never going to throw new-book resources at backlist conversion projects.

Expecting them to have each and every backlist title carefully converted to electronic format, and then lovingly proofed and corrected (and proofed again) by a human eyes from cover-to-cover isn't really realistic. Doing so would result in an ebook no one could afford to buy. They already sunk those expenses into the original print-only publication.

Originally Posted by DNSB

Much the same here. I will let the author/publisher know about the errors but I won't return the book. If really annoying and I have the time, I will correct the errors in my personal copy. As you mentioned, for a lot of the older mid-listers, I'm just happy to see an ebook version.

Anyone offering a book for sale is obliged to do the work required to present a quality product, which includes proper formatting and proofreading when digitizing. If they can't do that, let them sell a pdf; readers who so choose can then OCR the material themselves.

I refuse to be ripped off by some author who has the nerve to charge for a book that is a complete mess. Shoddy workmanship should not be rewarded.

Originally Posted by Ripplinger

Yes, you're right, I forgot to add that part. The few books I've scanned, that's exactly what I did, read against a copy of the original scan still on my PC. In fact, even when I've completed the ebook, I keep those original scans just in case a question comes up later, so I have them for reference.

Yes. This.

[DiapDealer]

Originally Posted by Catlady

Anyone offering a book for sale is obliged to do the work required to present a quality product, which includes proper formatting and proofreading when digitizing. If they can't do that, let them sell a pdf; readers who so choose can then OCR the material themselves.

They're not "obliged" to do anything of the sort.

Originally Posted by Catlady

I refuse to be ripped off by some author who has the nerve to charge for a book that is a complete mess. Shoddy workmanship should not be rewarded.

Same here. I feel the same way. But that doesn't make your first statement true. They can offer the shoddiest work they want for sale. Their call. No one is obliged to buy.

[Catlady]

Originally Posted by DiapDealer

They're not "obliged" to do anything of the sort.


Same here. I feel the same way. But that doesn't make your first statement true. They can offer the shoddiest work they want for sale. Their call. No one is obliged to buy.

Oh please. They have moral obligation not to rip off their potential customers. They have a moral obligation not to present a shoddy product.

[haertig]

One possible synonym for "obliged" is "expected".

"Anyone offering a book for sale is obliged^h^h^h^h^h^h^hexpected to do the work required to present a quality product"

"Obliged" may not be the most common word found in this scenario, but the word fits, and this is proper usage of it.

It's like when I order a book from Amazon, USA, to be delivered to an address in the USA, they are obliged to send me one in English, unless the description states that it's in some other language. This may not be a legal requirement, but it is certainly expected, and rightfully so.