01-05-2008, 08:29 AM | #361 | |
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have increased. People's budget isn't infinite, so they prefer to spend money on concert tickets (which is actually much more interesting for the artists) than for CDs. And this is without talking of the changes in business practices which now include much more unsold CDs than before. |
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01-05-2008, 08:33 AM | #362 | |
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Downloads do not hurt sales. What they do is polarize sales. Bad albums don't sell nearly as well because people download them, try them out and delete them - instead of wasting their money buying them only to find out that they are bad. Good albums sell more - because people download them, try them out and see how good they are. |
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01-05-2008, 10:45 AM | #363 |
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I believe the point is moot. Piracy exists on a large scale. DRM did not stop it. Lawsuits have not stopped it. Not making the product available in digital form has not stopped it. Appeal to moral standards works only at a low level, and cannot work at all when there is not a legal alternative. To argue otherwise is to ignore measured reality.
Nor is this piracy centralized. You can't just go after a few kingpins and organisations and shut it down. The mass populace are doing it individually. This implies that the mass populace are now and will continue to vote with their wallets (over the short term) and ignore the long term consequences. (And putting all your potential customers in jail certainly won't cause an increase in sales.) <shrug> As I pointed out earlier, this is an effect of technological change. The only way to get rid of it is to get rid of the technology. And that's <not> going to happen. I.P. producers effectively have two choices - 1. The 100% of 0 method, i.e. don't put it on the market legally, and get no revenue. People who want to will get it illegally anyway. Or 2. Take a few percent of a large pie, and get a small amount of revenue, acknowledging that most of the people aren't going to pay. This is how all publishing businesses worked pre-copyright. This comment is not about legal realities, or moral concepts. I'm just measuring the world as it is. DRM is based on the assumption that there is another way. It is useless in the #1 (no product), and an unwanted annoyance in #2 (which will cause people to not buy the legal product to get away from the DRM, shrinking the few percent even smaller.) The only products where the DRM has held up have been product that failed in the marketplace. (and arguments can be made that the sucessful DRM is <why> the products failed in the first place). Otherwise, the illegal world cracks it and and passes around the cracking software. And you end up back at #2. (Who sells more DRM books .lit or .prx?). |
01-05-2008, 04:29 PM | #364 | ||
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We have all heard both of your arguments before (DRM is painless, piracy is ruining the music industry/will ruin the book publishing industry), made by you and by many others before you, and so far, many of us find the evidence for both to be completely lacking. Please provide new evidence to support your claims, or stop repeating them. |
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01-05-2008, 05:03 PM | #365 | |
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An example supporting the "piracy causes loss of music sales" is: http://economics.uchicago.edu/downlo...ustryoct12.pdf I haven't analysed it closely, since it's not an issue I particularly care about. I do feel though, that the minority here who argue that case, are in danger of being shouted down. They have as much right to repeat themselves as anyone else, imho . |
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01-05-2008, 05:25 PM | #366 |
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I've read that music cd sales are down but digital song sales are going up. I don't download much music because there are so many great streaming music sites I don't need to buy music. So in a way my consumption is up but my buying is down.
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01-05-2008, 05:26 PM | #367 | |
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If less music is bought but more is consumed, where do you think the gap is being filled at? It's not the legal sources since music sales has dropped. The gap is being filled at Emule and co. Or does really anybody think music falls out of the blue sky and suddenly appears on hard drives and mp3 players? Alan |
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01-05-2008, 05:31 PM | #368 | |
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Alan |
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01-05-2008, 05:54 PM | #369 |
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No, no permanent copy. With sites like Pandora and AOL Music I can tweak my "stations" to perfection and listen to most any music I like. I have no need to buy nor steal music. More money to buy ebooks
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01-05-2008, 06:07 PM | #370 | |
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It is not a question of sides. If you claim someting to be true you should have support for this claim. If you do not have it you say "I do not know" or you say "this article (reference) seems to indicate that ..." or some other formulation that is not so categorical as the ones you have used.
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01-05-2008, 06:22 PM | #371 |
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01-05-2008, 09:38 PM | #372 | ||
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It may well be that less music is being sold through the larger commercial recording labels but more is being sold through independents, for example. This would account for your first "fact" but would not provide for causation by your second "fact." Honestly, it's possible to convince me of something, but it takes actual evidence, cited from reputable sources. I prefer peer-reviewed journals, but at this point I'd be interested in seeing anything beyond industry flack claims. I'm not trying to "shout down" anyone, I just want to see some actual studies to back up these claims. There's a fairly well-known Harvard study supporting the claim that the darknet/"piracy" has not impacted the health of the music industry. There are studies convincingly supporting the claim that those who are the heaviest downloaders of darknet music are also the biggest purchasers of legal music. This is even acknowledged in the Chicago University study cited by Sparrow. However, that study also includes statements like "Based on my estimates, back of the envelope calculations indicate that online music piracy may explain a drop in music sales of 7.8% to 14.5%." I have to say, I don't find that wording particularly compelling. But to be fair, I read through the rest of the article. I have the statistics to appreciate what the author is doing in his analysis, and I'm not convinced. He seems to me to be struggling to find an interpretation of his data that will support his hypotheses. Quote:
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01-06-2008, 03:04 AM | #373 |
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I believe that CDs today are cheaper in real terms than they were 15 or 20 years ago, Jon.
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01-06-2008, 06:06 AM | #374 | |
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Did you have any in particular in mind? If you 'have support for this claim' - it'd help jog my memory . |
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01-06-2008, 06:19 AM | #375 | |||
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BTW: There is a school directly in front of my office window. During breaks there are hundreds of students outside the building. I guess about 75 % of them are using an mp3 player or at least have one with them. If we would ask them how many of the songs on their players are legally obtained, what to you think would be the result? I think 10 % for iPod user and 2 % for all other would be a good number. But maybe I'm a little bit too optimistic here. Alan Last edited by Alan; 01-06-2008 at 06:21 AM. |
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