Kobo future firmware feature request thread

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by JSWolf

I'm sure it cannot be done without patching/hacking.

If you think it can be done through patching or hacking, then your response is even worse. But, as @Terisa de morgan said, this thread is about things that people want Kobo to do. They definitely could do something if they feel it is a good idea. And, if they think it is a good idea, make sure any future hardware supports it in the best way possible.

[emreka]

Originally Posted by davidfor

Sorry, but, I just find that funny. Basically, you are saying, "I want to seriously decrease the runtime of the battery by reducing the allowed battery usage, and I'll do that by actually using the battery more!"

The methods laptops used was in the BIOS and controlled by apps or the BIOS. As I understood it, it changed the charging parameters that were being used rather than run something extra.

Of course, I also think the whole thing is pointless. Again, you are basically saying, "I want my battery to last longer so I won't actually use it but I will plug it in twice as often."

People keep saying "phone/laptop manufacturers know what their doing" or "phone circuitry already does this" yet batteries keep dying after a few years. Charging your phone once to 100% is disproportionately more damaging than charging your phone twice to 90%. Think of it like filling and emptying a cardboard box to 100% vs. 80% 365 times.


There are studies regarding this, %40-80 is the most efficient cycle but you don't have to go out of your way, anything below 100% would help. Some laptops allow you to do this, some Samsung phones do this by default and that is how they can guarantee 95% battery retention after a year. Under normal circumstances you can expect 80% battery retention. Some of this extra 15% comes from the reserve power but most of it because there is a reserve power.

Other companies might be doing what Samsung is doing but not all, so it would be nice to have the option.

[compurandom]

Originally Posted by emreka

There are studies regarding this, %40-80 is the most efficient cycle but you don't have to go out of your way, anything below 100% would help..

I keep saying this, people don't get.

They think, "You're only using 40% of the battery, you're getting less out of it".

But the real issue here is, unless some bug drains your battery, ideally you'd end up using less than 10% of the battery in a day anyway, so if you charge it almost every day instead of once a month and draining to 10%, but only charge up to 80%, then your battery would last 10-15 years instead of 2-3 years.

Probably draining to 40% and charging to 100% would still give you 5-8 years.

On the flip side, even if you abuse your battery in a kobo and end up reducing its battery capacity down to 15% of its original capacity, it'd probably still be usable, you'd just be forced to charge it every day of use anyway. So maybe there's not a lot of difference. Except that charging 10% once a day might mean having it plugged in for 10-15 minutes.

[John F]

Originally Posted by compurandom

I keep saying this, people don't get.

They think, "You're only using 40% of the battery, you're getting less out of it".

But the real issue here is, unless some bug drains your battery, ideally you'd end up using less than 10% of the battery in a day anyway, so if you charge it almost every day instead of once a month and draining to 10%, but only charge up to 80%, then your battery would last 10-15 years instead of 2-3 years.

Probably draining to 40% and charging to 100% would still give you 5-8 years.

On the flip side, even if you abuse your battery in a kobo and end up reducing its battery capacity down to 15% of its original capacity, it'd probably still be usable, you'd just be forced to charge it every day of use anyway. So maybe there's not a lot of difference. Except that charging 10% once a day might mean having it plugged in for 10-15 minutes.

Annecdotal, but ...

I normally drain down to 30% and charge to 100%, which is around 3 weeks, and all of my readers have lasted more than 3 years. My Glo HD is going on 5+ years and I'm not noticing appreciable battery loss.

Although that 40% to 80% sounds nice, I'd just assume plug it in and forget about it; I don't mind monitoring it as it approaches 40%, but monitoring for 80% sounds like a PITA. I'd just assume not do that and buy a new device (or replace the battery) in 6+ years.

If the mechanism is built in, great, otherwise I'll go for convience.

YMMV

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by emreka

People keep saying "phone/laptop manufacturers know what their doing" or "phone circuitry already does this" yet batteries keep dying after a few years. Charging your phone once to 100% is disproportionately more damaging than charging your phone twice to 90%. Think of it like filling and emptying a cardboard box to 100% vs. 80% 365 times.


There are studies regarding this, %40-80 is the most efficient cycle but you don't have to go out of your way, anything below 100% would help. Some laptops allow you to do this, some Samsung phones do this by default and that is how they can guarantee 95% battery retention after a year. Under normal circumstances you can expect 80% battery retention. Some of this extra 15% comes from the reserve power but most of it because there is a reserve power.

Other companies might be doing what Samsung is doing but not all, so it would be nice to have the option.

Here's the thing, I know all this. I've been using rechargeable batteries for a long time. I did a lot of research into Li-Ion batteries the first time I had to replace one in a laptop and was horrified at the price. I completely understand how this works and why you would do it. I just don't think it is worth it. If the device supports it, then great. But, someday, you are going to be stuck somewhere with a flat battery knowing that you sacrificed 20% of the runtime to allow the battery to last a few extra months. Hopefully the phone call you need to make isn't to your emergency number.

Another thing with this is: How do you know the device/battery isn't already doing this? The damage isn't done by charging to 100%. The damage is done by charging to to high a voltage. The 100% charge level represents a battery voltage. The exact voltage used depends on the charging circuit built into the device or battery. If the manufacturer chose a lower voltage for 100%, then it will already be doing this. Which is really all that Samsung is doing.

I'll stand by what I usually say: "Just use it". Anything you can do to extend the overall lifetime of a Li-Ion battery is a nuisance and means you aren't actually using the battery. And generally, doesn't have enough effect to be worth it. Use it as it is convenient, charge it when convenient.

And sorry, but what the hell is "reserve power"? Is there a second battery in the device that is used when the main battery runs out? Or have they just set 0% to a higher voltage and let the battery level run below that?

[compurandom]

Originally Posted by davidfor

I'll stand by what I usually say: "Just use it". Anything you can do to extend the overall lifetime of a Li-Ion battery is a nuisance and means you aren't actually using the battery. And generally, doesn't have enough effect to be worth it. Use it as it is convenient, charge it when convenient.

I agree, which is why I suggeted the 40-100% range. It really just means you top the battery off on a regular basis rather than waiting for it to go dead.

And sorry, but what the hell is "reserve power"?

It's very dangerous (to the health of the battery) to let it go totally dead.
So the charge control chip stops letting the device drain it somewhere just below 10%, and it reserves this last little bit to keep the charge control chip going and to keep the battery well away from the dangerous 0 point where it could reverse polarity fatally. Typically the battery can sit there for a month before it hits 0 anyway.

Either that, or it's the power the laptop manufacturer reserves to allow enough power to shut down cleanly or hibernate before there's not enough power to keep it on. (Depending on your context obviously.)

[Taner]

If any Kobo dev reading here i have request.

I want to hide Collection books from Book list.

[emreka]

If giving up 10% battery life now means I don't have to lose +50% over 4-5 years then it's not a nuisance, not unless I have to do it manually, which is why I'd like this a seemless feature. It'll be good for my piece of mind, good for my wallet and good for the environment. I don't know if Kobo does this and I can't rely on corporations to do this out of the kindness of their hearts because they have no incentive to do it unless they're promoting it as a feature or the backlash for short-lived batteries would be disastrous for business like it would be in the case of electric cars.


By reserve power I meant the capacity hidden from the user or not charged. Like 0-100% actually being 5-95%. It might not be the correct term if you want to be pedantic but I thought it'd get the point across.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by compurandom

It's very dangerous (to the health of the battery) to let it go totally dead.
So the charge control chip stops letting the device drain it somewhere just below 10%, and it reserves this last little bit to keep the charge control chip going and to keep the battery well away from the dangerous 0 point where it could reverse polarity fatally. Typically the battery can sit there for a month before it hits 0 anyway.

Either that, or it's the power the laptop manufacturer reserves to allow enough power to shut down cleanly or hibernate before there's not enough power to keep it on. (Depending on your context obviously.)

Would you please tell me where you got this from? So far, I haven't seen a device or laptop that couldn't run down to what it shows as 0%. I know that this is above the danger voltage below which is dangerous to recharge from. But, every single one of my laptops I have managed to keep running until that just turn off. Some do have something that kicks off a shutdown, but, that isn't always successful. Which I actually believe is part of Windows. Same goes for the phones in my household (especially my wife's).

And this goes especially with batteries with a lot of wear. I have used laptops with batteries that only had a few minutes of power. Just enough to unplug, move to another room and plug in. If this "reserve power" worked the way you suggest, these would initiate the shutdown as soon as they were unplugged.

[compurandom]

Originally Posted by davidfor

If this "reserve power" worked the way you suggest, these would initiate the shutdown as soon as they were unplugged.

Its possibly different for every device. Some devices might display that last 5-10% as 0% as emreka suggested. It's not like the battery numbers we get are a stable measurement of the battery charge or an industry standard with meaning.

And I have had devices that would start shutting down immediately when you unplugged them if the battery indicated 10% -- in fact, my kobo has done that to me at least once, but I don't recall if it was at 10% or lower.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by compurandom

Its possibly different for every device. Some devices might display that last 5-10% as 0% as emreka suggested. It's not like the battery numbers we get are a stable measurement of the battery charge or an industry standard with meaning.

And I have had devices that would start shutting down immediately when you unplugged them if the battery indicated 10% -- in fact, my kobo has done that to me at least once, but I don't recall if it was at 10% or lower.

Which isn't what @emreka seems to be saying. Prompting to save work, plugin and maybe forcing a shutdown at some point before hitting 0% battery is done. What @emreka is implying is that there are devices out there that use 0% as the trigger point and still have enough power to shutdown safely. If there are, I haven't seen or heard of them.

[JSWolf]

Originally Posted by emreka

If giving up 10% battery life now means I don't have to lose +50% over 4-5 years then it's not a nuisance, not unless I have to do it manually, which is why I'd like this a seemless feature. It'll be good for my piece of mind, good for my wallet and good for the environment. I don't know if Kobo does this and I can't rely on corporations to do this out of the kindness of their hearts because they have no incentive to do it unless they're promoting it as a feature or the backlash for short-lived batteries would be disastrous for business like it would be in the case of electric cars.


By reserve power I meant the capacity hidden from the user or not charged. Like 0-100% actually being 5-95%. It might not be the correct term if you want to be pedantic but I thought it'd get the point across.

My H2O is 6-years old. I have never bothered doing any battery shenanigans and the battery is working well. You don't need to fool around to get a long life from the battery,

[Barruel]

Hi.

I have a firmware feature request.

Nowadays I'm doing all my reading in my Claras, but I have had 2 2015 Kindle Paperwhites in the past. One is still running an ancient firmware version, but the other (which sadly died a year ago) ran a 5.12.whatever firmware.

I miss a feature such later firmware had, which was the ability to set reading settings "profiles". I remember I could set font, spacing margins, justification, etc. and store it in a profile. I could even give a custom name to it.

I don't remember if these "profiles" were global profiles or worked only on a per-book basis, but that was a nice way of testing new fonts and spacing without losing comfortable settings. Now I'm doing it by keeping one of my Claras as a reference I can always come back to, but it would be nice to have the profiles feature in them. Ideally it would include also advanced settings for sideloaded fonts, just as the patches allow.

Is it realistic to expect something like that in future firmwares or am I asking too much?

Best regards.

[PeterT]

You have the classic issue that this is strictly an unofficial forum for Kobo users with no guarantee that Kobo will ever see this (or any other) request.

[Barruel]

Originally Posted by PeterT

You have the classic issue that this is strictly an unofficial forum for Kobo users with no guarantee that Kobo will ever see this (or any other) request.

I see.

So no Kobo rep is monitoring this? Has any feature requested here ever actually made into the firmware?