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Old 10-10-2021, 02:02 PM   #1
richstant
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Certain books only transferring as epub, not kepub

Hi, I prefer to have kepubs rather than epubs on my device. I've enabled kobo touch extended plugin, and disabled the original kobo touch plugin. For some books, this works great, and I automatically get kepubs on the device. However for others (I'm currently wrestling with a AZW3 file), I always end up with a epub. If I set kobotouchextended to not send epubs, then I get a pdf, so it's definitely using the right plugin to send the files. kepub is the first format in the list for the plugin.

Any ideas why it would convert the azw3 to a epub, but not a kepub?
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Old 10-10-2021, 08:57 PM   #2
davidfor
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The KoboTouchExtended driver does not actually convert books. It takes the epub and makes changes to that to make it a kepub. The distinction is that if you use calibre to convert a book from one format to another, calibre runs it through the complete conversion pipeline which means a lot more changes are made to the book. The driver pretty much just adds the spans to each internal file. It doesn't rebuild the ToC, update the metadata and cover or one of the many other things that happen during a conversion. And it doesn't add the resulting book to the library.

If you don't have format in the library that the device supports, when sending to the device, calibre will convert the book to the first format in the supported list that it can convert to. The default for the KoboTouch and KoboTouchExtended drivers is to have kepub first and epub second. And PDF third. So, if you send a AZW to the device, it will try to convert to kepub, but, if it cannot, it will convert to epub. To do those conversions, it is not the driver. Calibre runs the full conversion, adds the result to the library and then sends that book to the device. For a book to be converted to kepub in this way, you need to have the conversion output plugin for this format. And as that is not happening, you do not have the Kepub Output plugin installed. But, you may not want that.

Without the Kepub Output plugin, the AZW should be converted to epub and the extended driver should do the transformation to kepub when sending the book to the device. If that is not happening, then it suggests that there is something in the epub that was produced that meant the extended driver could not do what it was supposed to. When this fails, the driver will send the epub to the device. And there is an option in the driver whether to report this error or not.

All that means is that I believe there is a problem with the epub that is created when calibre does a conversion of the AZW file. If you run calibre in debug mode and post the log from when you send the book, it may show what is happening. The calibre editor or Sigil might show the error when you use their checking. That will depend on exactly what the problem is. Otherwise, I would need to see the book and try it myself.
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Old 10-11-2021, 06:52 AM   #3
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Convert everything that's not an epub to epub in Calibre before transfers.
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Old 10-11-2021, 10:49 AM   #4
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Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Convert everything that's not an epub to epub in Calibre before transfers.
Why not just convert these non-ePub eBooks directly to KePub using the appropriate plugins? All that needs to be done is to install all the KePub plugins and then convert and go.
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Old 10-11-2021, 12:50 PM   #5
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Because Calibre works best with ePub as the intermediate or reference format.

Also ONLY Kobo uses kepub and it has advantages and disadvantages. The Kobo Driver in Kepub mode does very little to the formatting, so on the fly epub to kepub to the Kobo and storing epubs works well.
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Old 10-11-2021, 01:08 PM   #6
richstant
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Thanks for all the info & suggestions, I think I may have sorted it. It occurred to me that I've recently switched to using kobo uncaged, so I can transfer books wirelessly (no old-style USB ports on the new laptop). I found that if I connect by a USB cable, then the book does get converted properly into a kepub on transfer. However if I transfer wirelessly, via kobo uncaged, I only get the epub. That's despite kobo uncaged saying that it supports kepub (and is set to prefer kepub). I could have sworn I'd tested this yesterday, and I got epub under both circumstances, but I think I must have just got myself in a mess with all the different things I tried.

I'd assumed that kobo uncaged was still using the kobo touch extended plugin in order to talk to the kobo. I assume from this that it isn't? In which case I need to install the kepub output converter, and convert in calibre if I want kobo uncaged to use the kepub?

Last edited by richstant; 10-11-2021 at 01:18 PM.
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Old 10-11-2021, 02:42 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richstant View Post
Thanks for all the info & suggestions, I think I may have sorted it. It occurred to me that I've recently switched to using kobo uncaged, so I can transfer books wirelessly (no old-style USB ports on the new laptop). I found that if I connect by a USB cable, then the book does get converted properly into a kepub on transfer. However if I transfer wirelessly, via kobo uncaged, I only get the epub. That's despite kobo uncaged saying that it supports kepub (and is set to prefer kepub). I could have sworn I'd tested this yesterday, and I got epub under both circumstances, but I think I must have just got myself in a mess with all the different things I tried.

I'd assumed that kobo uncaged was still using the kobo touch extended plugin in order to talk to the kobo. I assume from this that it isn't? In which case I need to install the kepub output converter, and convert in calibre if I want kobo uncaged to use the kepub?
i'd try the obvious choice in post 3 first.

best wishes koboy
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Old 10-11-2021, 07:55 PM   #8
davidfor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by richstant View Post
Thanks for all the info & suggestions, I think I may have sorted it. It occurred to me that I've recently switched to using kobo uncaged, so I can transfer books wirelessly (no old-style USB ports on the new laptop). I found that if I connect by a USB cable, then the book does get converted properly into a kepub on transfer. However if I transfer wirelessly, via kobo uncaged, I only get the epub. That's despite kobo uncaged saying that it supports kepub (and is set to prefer kepub). I could have sworn I'd tested this yesterday, and I got epub under both circumstances, but I think I must have just got myself in a mess with all the different things I tried.

I'd assumed that kobo uncaged was still using the kobo touch extended plugin in order to talk to the kobo. I assume from this that it isn't? In which case I need to install the kepub output converter, and convert in calibre if I want kobo uncaged to use the kepub?
Um no. Kobo-UNCaGED does not use anything "Kobo" in calibre. The first step in the instructions for running Kobo-UNCaGED is to make sure the wireless connection is running. With that, the application on the device does a lot of the work.

But, this means that nothing from either the KoboTouch or KoboTouchExtended drivers are used. The transformation to kepub is not done, and you don't have access to the information these drivers produce. Some of this could be done by Kobo-UNCaGED itself, but, I don't know what. Telling Kobo-UNCaGED that you want kepubs means that it is will choose any kepubs in the library over the epub. If you don't have kepubs, which appears to be the case, it will take the epub. Or the first format in the list of supported formats in Kobo-UNCaGED. But, it is the first format for which calibre knows how to convert the book. As the AZW books are being converted to epub, that says you do not have the Kepub Output plugin installed.

If you want to keep using Kobo-UNCaGED and kepubs on the device, you need to install the Kepub Output plugin. Then, either convert the books to kepub yourself before sending the books to the device, or let the driver do the conversion. If you have epubs in the library, you either need to do the conversion to kepub yourself, or remove epub as a supported format in Kobo-UNCaGED.

Or you can go back to using the USB connection and the KoboTouchExtended driver.
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Old 10-11-2021, 10:50 PM   #9
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Why not just convert these non-ePub eBooks directly to KePub using the appropriate plugins?
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...ONLY Kobo uses kepub and it has advantages and disadvantages.
Yes, exactly. I always read kepub on my Kobo, but in my Calibre library, books are always converted to ePub.
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Old 10-11-2021, 10:51 PM   #10
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As the author of Kobo-UNCaGED, basically what davidfor said. You have to convert any books to kepub before sending to device.

In the future (when I get around to working on KU again), I'm considering using @geek1011's kepubify library to do on-device conversion, if performance isn't an issue.
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Old 10-11-2021, 11:14 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Because Calibre works best with ePub as the intermediate or reference format.

Also ONLY Kobo uses kepub and it has advantages and disadvantages. The Kobo Driver in Kepub mode does very little to the formatting, so on the fly epub to kepub to the Kobo and storing epubs works well.
Yeah. Sometimes even an epub doesn't successfully convert to Kepub. One has to convert epub (original) to epub then to Kepub for conversion to work.

I do not understand why but it happens.
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Old 10-12-2021, 01:16 AM   #12
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Yeah. Sometimes even an epub doesn't successfully convert to Kepub. One has to convert epub (original) to epub then to Kepub for conversion to work.

I do not understand why but it happens.
This illustrates why I am careful to differentiate between what the KoboTouchExtended driver does and a calibre conversion.

Using calibre to convert to a kepub will usually be successful. If it isn't, then most failures will be in the conversion to epub steps. If you have an epub and use calibre to convert to kepub, it will still run the full conversion pipeline and make all the changes that an epub-to-epub conversion would do. Then it does the kepubification steps.

But, the extended driver just tries to make changes to the existing epub. If there are problems with the epub, then there will be problems with that transformation. These are errors that will usually be shown by the error checking in the calibre editor. And will usually be fixed by an actual conversion.

And for the record, the kepubification steps in the extended driver and the conversion are identical. They use exactly the same code.

If anyone does find epubs that do not pass the kepubification steps, then please report them in the KoboTouchExtended thread in the calibre forum. Then we can look at why to see if the problem can be handled.
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