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Old 02-01-2019, 04:13 PM   #16
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For the record, I actively discourage use of the bookmark fetch that is in the Kobo Utilities plugin. It was something I wrote while learning about the annotations in the device and because I didn't like the experimental function that calibre had. Plus the Annotations plugin didn't exist at the time. If something breaks this, I'm not sure I'll bother fixing it.
David, the plugin sounds interesting and if I still had a Kobo, I'd use it.

Can you tell me for the sake of interest, how does the utility export all the distinct footnotes and associate them with a single book in Calibre, given that a book takes up a single row in the Calibre database? Does the plugin concatenate all the footnotes into a giant string and stick that value into a column? Just trying to visualize how you are handling this....
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Old 02-01-2019, 05:45 PM   #17
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David, the plugin sounds interesting and if I still had a Kobo, I'd use it.

Can you tell me for the sake of interest, how does the utility export all the distinct footnotes and associate them with a single book in Calibre, given that a book takes up a single row in the Calibre database? Does the plugin concatenate all the footnotes into a giant string and stick that value into a column? Just trying to visualize how you are handling this....
Yep, "a giant string and stick that value into a column". The string is HTML with styles. The column is a long text column, which displays the formatted HTML.
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Old 02-01-2019, 08:16 PM   #18
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Yep, "a giant string and stick that value into a column". The string is HTML with styles. The column is a long text column, which displays the formatted HTML.
Nice! And then--you knew this was coming--is there some kind of ability to sync it with what's in a Kobo device, or is this a one-way push where you send it from device to Calibre only, and any future update just overwrites what's there?

Thanks for all your work on this, very cool.
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Old 02-01-2019, 09:03 PM   #19
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Nice! And then--you knew this was coming--is there some kind of ability to sync it with what's in a Kobo device, or is this a one-way push where you send it from device to Calibre only, and any future update just overwrites what's there?
It merges the annotations each time you do a fetch. And this should work for all devices supported by the plugin.
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Old 02-02-2019, 01:16 PM   #20
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Thanks David. So at this time, on your 'roadmap' for the plugin, is something like a 2-way sync on the horizon? Meaning, not only that it fetches and merges comments from supported devices, but it would also sync the merged comments back to supported devices?

I assume that would drastically increase the complexity and also assume you have limited dev time on a voluntary project. Just interested to hear where it's going in the future....

Thanks.
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Old 02-02-2019, 09:28 PM   #21
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At the moment, I don't have any plans to send annotations back to the devices. You are right about the complexity of code. But, the plugin is for multiple device types and can support apps. It would be impossible to send the annotations back to a Kindle or a tolino in a useful way. The real storage for the annotations is not usable on these devices. For a Kobo, it wouldn't be that hard, but would require storing a lot more information.

Any real changes for the plugin are a little on hold at the moment. There are major updates to viewer in calibre coming. At that time, I'll look at whether I can make the annotations viewable there.

In the meantime, if you want to backup annotations for epubs, you can backup the contents of the "Digital Edititions/Annotations" directory. There will be a file for each epub that has been opened with the annotations in it. These can be restored to the device, or another Kobo, and the annotations will be read when the book is opened.
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Old 02-04-2019, 10:15 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
For the record, I actively discourage use of the bookmark fetch that is in the Kobo Utilities plugin.
Never used that. I don't highlight ever now without a note as I'd likely not remember why I highlighted. Anyway notes work well enough, it's the actual source selection that's erratic.

It's only actual user entered notes (annotations in paper sense) I want.
I have learnt to make sure the TOC actually works before doing annotations on a book, otherwise the entire book is one "chapter".

The Copy & Paste Kobo Utilities Annotation fetch is much faster than it used to be and was quick anyway. Could speed up be due to using an SD card for the books?
The formatting is strange, but 4 global Search & Replace on the pasted text file makes it fine.

I guess if I was doing a load of research bookmarks might be useful, but OTH actually making a quick note is better, so I'm sceptical how much use "plain bookmarks" are. Reading position seems only important for syncing different devices. It's only lost if the book is marked Unread, Finished or Replaced (I always remove and then Send to update a book). I've not had the Kobo lose a reading position. One bug it doesn't have!
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Old 02-04-2019, 07:26 PM   #23
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Never used that. I don't highlight ever now without a note as I'd likely not remember why I highlighted. Anyway notes work well enough, it's the actual source selection that's erratic.
Wow, I thought it was clear what we were talking about as you were the one who brought it up. The comment I responded to was a response to you recommending using the function in the Kobo Utilities to get bookmarks/highlights/annotations from the device. Yes, I sometimes get lazy and use one of bookmarks/highlights/annotations instead of being explicit and mentioning all of them. As far as the Kobo devices and trying to fetch them are concerned, they are the same. But...

I actively discourage use of the "Copy annotations for Selected Books" function in my Kobo Utilities plugin. It is ugly, something I put together when I was first learning about this, and if I could, would drop. Each time someone mentions they use it, I am surprised.

I assume you were referring to "Fetch/Restore current bookmark" function, which is something I actively encourage people to use.
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It's only actual user entered notes (annotations in paper sense) I want.
I have learnt to make sure the TOC actually works before doing annotations on a book, otherwise the entire book is one "chapter".

The Copy & Paste Kobo Utilities Annotation fetch is much faster than it used to be and was quick anyway. Could speed up be due to using an SD card for the books?
No.
Quote:
The formatting is strange, but 4 global Search & Replace on the pasted text file makes it fine.

I guess if I was doing a load of research bookmarks might be useful, but OTH actually making a quick note is better, so I'm sceptical how much use "plain bookmarks" are.
It really depends on what you are marking and why. I use all three styles
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Reading position seems only important for syncing different devices. It's only lost if the book is marked Unread, Finished or Replaced (I always remove and then Send to update a book). I've not had the Kobo lose a reading position. One bug it doesn't have!
There are several reasons to store them. And it is something that has been heavily discussed here.
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Old 02-05-2019, 06:49 AM   #24
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I actively discourage use of the "Copy annotations for Selected Books" function in my Kobo Utilities plugin. It is ugly, something I put together when I was first learning about this, and if I could, would drop. Each time someone mentions they use it, I am surprised.
That's the ONLY useful complete method to get annotations off the Kobo. The "uglyness" is irrelevant. It used to look pretty, but it still needed Search & Replace.
The few search & replaces needed to format the copy & pasted text are trivial.

Without this, I'd not be using the Kobo at all. I bought it for PDFs, but it's useless for scanned magazines (I've 100s of out of copyright) and larger format books. Only OK for small A5 size manuals.

My use of the Kobo for proof reading & annotations probably has saved enough toner and paper to pay for two of them. The lack of useful Chapter name & percent on the Kindle makes it very poor for finding where the annotations belong unless a large piece of source is highlighted. Apart from the fact the Annotations Plug-in is a pain to use the text outside of Calibre compared to the Kobo Utilities. I've no interest at all in seeing bookmarks, highlights or annotations in Calibre.

I read a lot. Maybe sometimes 4 to 14 hours a day. If it's reading for pleasure then it's simply put on the Kobo and read. Nothing ever copied back.
If it's proofing, then I might read and annotate from breakfast time to bedtime. The Highlight selection gets really slow. I guess Kobo don't test for more than a minute or two.
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Old 02-05-2019, 07:18 AM   #25
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That's the ONLY useful complete method to get annotations off the Kobo. The "uglyness" is irrelevant. It used to look pretty, but it still needed Search & Replace.
Well, to me, the ugliness is very rellevent as I'm the one who has to maintain the mess. I regret putting it in the plugin.
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The few search & replaces needed to format the copy & pasted text are trivial.

Without this, I'd not be using the Kobo at all. I bought it for PDFs, but it's useless for scanned magazines (I've 100s of out of copyright) and larger format books. Only OK for small A5 size manuals.
Which shows how little research you did if that was a prime reason. Ask anyone, are Kobo devices good for PDF? The answer is "Get a tablet.". The answer is the same for Kindles and any of the other sub-8" e-ink devices. The larger e-ink devices, maybe. I don't have the experience with them to comment.
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Old 02-05-2019, 01:32 PM   #26
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Well, to me, the ugliness is very rellevent as I'm the one who has to maintain the mess. I regret putting it in the plugin.
Ugly code or ugly to use? Obviously you don't write and edit novels and read lots of books compared to programming. It works fine to copy & paste. Less time to reformat than the Annotations Plugin needs to simply have a list of books. Very handy to select ONE book, click click click and Ctrl V in the text edit window. Very complete info too: Internal chapter number, chapter heading text, % distance into chapter, highlighted source and note. All in desired order.

It would be trivial to format in Calibre as below, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER, it's really simple to reformat after copy/paste. You can see some source text is deleted and internal chapter label changed to Loc. Some novels don't hhave the word chapter in heading, or even numbers.
Sample (The * or X means annotation edited in or ignored)
Code:
Loc 10 Chapter 11: Tracking: 50.0%
  Src: They do, Freyja and
*   Note: That's true,

Loc 10 Chapter 11: Tracking: 51.0%
  Src: and later me and said that she
*  Note: and me. Later she told me

Loc 11 Chapter 12: Demigods: 51.0%
  Src: that night, Alice crept
 *  Note: Del ,

Loc 11 Chapter 12: Demigods: 51.0%
  Src: was sure being
  Note: herself

Loc 11 Chapter 12: Demigods: 51.0%
  Src: or a great great aunt.
  Note: Del a great

Loc 11 Chapter 12: Demigods: 51.0%
  Src: hand was colder
  Note: seemed

Quote:
Originally Posted by davidfor View Post
Which shows how little research you did if that was a prime reason. Ask anyone, are Kobo devices good for PDF? The answer is "Get a tablet.". The answer is the same for Kindles and any of the other sub-8" e-ink devices. The larger e-ink devices, maybe. I don't have the experience with them to comment.
Yet again you make stupid assumptions. The best PDF eink reading solution used to be a Sony for drawing offices, about $1200 then reduced to about $800 when discontinued. There is a replacement. I can't justify it just for PDFs and it didn't exist when I bought my Kindle PW2. The Kindle 9.7" DXG sounded plausible but was discontinued for a while.

I have tablets and laptops. Since forever (1998 anyway for laptops). LCD screens are ghastly for reading for hours. My 2002 Laptop was/is 1600 x 1200 and STILL better than new 1920 x1080 models for A4 due to height and it's totally non-reflective. Still best LCD I've ever used to read PDFs. I read eBooks on it too before my first eink eReader. I use a 2017 model laptop with Linux Mint to work on.

I got a Kindle DXG on special offer from Amazon not long after my original paperwhite, which my wife got, and then my grandson when she got a PW3.

I bought the Kobo Aura H2O at release because the SD card slot would solve PDF storage issue (not enough space on DXG). I bought it primarily for reading ebooks and proofing as the lack of touch made the DXG awkward. The resolution and 6.8" sounded feasible. Really it's fine for smaller format books and A5 manuals, but not for the 1000s of A4 service booklets and 100s of old UK magazines.
The Sony large PDF eink are for drawing offices, etc, they need a special application (no mass storage mode) and don't do ebooks.

Maybe you should research what users beyond ordinary readers need and outside of the bubble of mass market Kindle & Kobo. Really with 90% of ebook sales, non-Kindles will be niche or doomed. Regulatory failure.

No, LCD or OLED tablets and laptops are not a solution for people reading for prolonged periods. I've tried. Maybe if they had properly matt screens it would help. Shiny is cheaper and looks better in the shop.
Even so most need PSU to give anything like 10 hours use.
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Old 02-06-2019, 02:00 AM   #27
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Ugly code or ugly to use?
Ugly code and produces ugly results that I have no desire to fix.
Quote:
Obviously you don't write and edit novels and read lots of books compared to programming. It works fine to copy & paste.Less time to reformat than the Annotations Plugin needs to simply have a list of books. Very handy to select ONE book, click click click and Ctrl V in the text edit window. Very complete info too: Internal chapter number, chapter heading text, % distance into chapter, highlighted source and note. All in desired order.
It works, that is about all I can say about it. And the only reason I've bothered to leave it in.
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It would be trivial to format in Calibre as below, BUT IT DOESN'T MATTER, it's really simple to reformat after copy/paste. You can see some source text is deleted and internal chapter label changed to Loc. Some novels don't hhave the word chapter in heading, or even numbers.
Sample (The * or X means annotation edited in or ignored)
Code:
Loc 10 Chapter 11: Tracking: 50.0%
  Src: They do, Freyja and
*   Note: That's true,
(edited for to save space)
And that formatting would need the information to all be there. And the Annotations plugin uses styles to show the difference between each part.
Quote:


Yet again you make stupid assumptions.
Can you be explicit and tell me what the assumption was? That you didn't do the research, or that PDF was a prime reason for buying the ereader? The latter was what you appeared to state in your previous post. And I quote: "I bought it for PDFs". The former was because of that statement. It's a fairly reasonable conclusion that you didn't do the research needed.
Quote:
The best PDF eink reading solution used to be a Sony for drawing offices, about $1200 then reduced to about $800 when discontinued. There is a replacement. I can't justify it just for PDFs and it didn't exist when I bought my Kindle PW2. The Kindle 9.7" DXG sounded plausible but was discontinued for a while.
Or is my "stupid assumption" that I don't know enough about the larger e-ink devices to comment on how well they work? If so, that's a really weird thing for you to be stating.
Quote:
I have tablets and laptops. Since forever (1998 anyway for laptops). LCD screens are ghastly for reading for hours. My 2002 Laptop was/is 1600 x 1200 and STILL better than new 1920 x1080 models for A4 due to height and it's totally non-reflective. Still best LCD I've ever used to read PDFs. I read eBooks on it too before my first eink eReader. I use a 2017 model laptop with Linux Mint to work on.

I got a Kindle DXG on special offer from Amazon not long after my original paperwhite, which my wife got, and then my grandson when she got a PW3.

I bought the Kobo Aura H2O at release because the SD card slot would solve PDF storage issue (not enough space on DXG). I bought it primarily for reading ebooks and proofing as the lack of touch made the DXG awkward. The resolution and 6.8" sounded feasible. Really it's fine for smaller format books and A5 manuals, but not for the 1000s of A4 service booklets and 100s of old UK magazines.
The Sony large PDF eink are for drawing offices, etc, they need a special application (no mass storage mode) and don't do ebooks.

Maybe you should research what users beyond ordinary readers need and outside of the bubble of mass market Kindle & Kobo. Really with 90% of ebook sales, non-Kindles will be niche or doomed. Regulatory failure.

No, LCD or OLED tablets and laptops are not a solution for people reading for prolonged periods. I've tried. Maybe if they had properly matt screens it would help. Shiny is cheaper and looks better in the shop.
Even so most need PSU to give anything like 10 hours use.
And absolutely none of that has anything to do with what I said. My statement was simple: NO ONE recommends reading PDF on smaller e-ink ereaders. Why? Because none of them do it very well. As I simply stated, if you had asked, "What ereader should I get to read PDFs?", the answer would have been, "Get a tablet". And for lots of reasons: size, power, navigation, colour display, price. And if you had stated what sort of PDFs you were reading (A4 sized, scanned pages), the answer would have been, "Don't even look at small ereaders, GET A TABLET".

Do people suggest devices like the Sony you refer to? Yes, but they tend to be excluded quickly for exactly the reasons you stated: price, limited format support, limited software support.
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Old 02-06-2019, 08:42 PM   #28
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Hi David, I got to the point of importing comments from a .kepub file, and that seemed to work.

I'm not clear how I use the plugin now? I cannot get the imported comments to display in Calibre, either when viewing the individual book, or as a column when viewing all the books. Is there guidance on this somewhere?
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:41 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by maximus83 View Post
Hi David, I got to the point of importing comments from a .kepub file, and that seemed to work.

I'm not clear how I use the plugin now? I cannot get the imported comments to display in Calibre, either when viewing the individual book, or as a column when viewing all the books. Is there guidance on this somewhere?
You did press the import button on the "Import Annotations" dialog? If so, the annotations are added to a column in calibre. That can be viewed in the book details pane when you select the book in calibre.

The default column used is the comments. They should be at the end of the comments. I recommend using a custom column. You can choose or create a suitable column in the plugins configuration.
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Old 02-06-2019, 09:54 PM   #30
maximus83
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Ok, then it's not just me. There may be a bug in the Kobo Forma fetch. It only fetches the latest comment, and skips the others.

ETA: It looks like you have to exit out of the book before you connect kobo to calibre and import. Then it grabs all the annotations. Is that a known item? Easy enough to do, just didn't realize I had to do that.

Last edited by maximus83; 02-06-2019 at 10:05 PM.
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