03-21-2018, 01:56 PM | #76 |
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Yes, me too. I didn't see it at all, but now it's hitting me upside the head with my "Duh Stick". So yet another re-read is in my future.
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03-21-2018, 02:39 PM | #77 |
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Or maybe not, if the following is an accurate quote
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/338...-any-symbolysm |
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03-21-2018, 06:03 PM | #78 |
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Good find Alohamora.
I didn’t think anything much of the names. The only thing I did note and then dismissed was the reference to the sound Santiago made when he hurt his hand as being the sound a man would make when a nail was hammered into his hand. I thought that Hemingway was wanting us to see Santiago as Christlike, and I thought it was a bit over the top. |
03-21-2018, 06:48 PM | #79 | |
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Quote:
I know of very few authors who claim they intentionally use symbolism, but at the same time, I think Hemingway was being seriously disingenuous. |
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03-21-2018, 07:06 PM | #80 |
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It was in a letter rather than being a public statement. I suppose it depends whether he was writing with an eye on later publication, and of course to whom he was writing.
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03-21-2018, 07:24 PM | #81 | |
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Quote:
Yup. |
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03-21-2018, 10:39 PM | #82 | |||
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Quote:
Quote:
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I get the impression that Hemingway didn't have a lot of imagination, that much of what he wrote was taken directly from experience. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but I think it explains some of his lack of subtlety. It also explains some of the stiff awkwardness in his character interactions - they are too literal (for my tastes). You don't see it so much in The Old Man and the Sea, but in The Sun Also Rises a lot of the dialogue is almost torturous to read. |
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03-22-2018, 07:57 AM | #83 |
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That concluding sentence sounds as if he had been having a few drinks before and during writing the letter. Does it negate what he had just said, or does he mean that if you see anything beyond the basics (old man, boy, sea, fish, sharks) it is because you are seeing, as it were, your own knowledge/beliefs?
And of course we all bring our own experience, prejudices and so on to the book when we read it and interpret it. |
03-22-2018, 09:41 AM | #84 | |
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And in one of those synchronicities, it was Dinesen who Hemingway said should have won the Nobel instead of him. |
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03-22-2018, 09:58 AM | #85 | |
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03-22-2018, 10:00 AM | #86 | |
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Oscar Wilde, "The Ballad of Reading Gaol":
Quote:
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03-22-2018, 02:21 PM | #87 |
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Well, now I’ve read one of the “American classics” (not part of the curriculum here). Not my cup of tea... I kept waiting for something more to happen, some resolution or hint of the future for the boy. It was an interesting take on a story. Although the old man surviving for days at sea with just one bottle of water... I guess I read too many dystopian novels to buy that
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03-22-2018, 08:44 PM | #88 | ||
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Quote:
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03-23-2018, 07:12 AM | #89 |
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I read "love" in this instance as meaning more identification with and empathy for the hunted, evoking a mutuality that of course does not exist but helps get the hunter off the hook morally.
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03-23-2018, 08:47 AM | #90 |
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I think your interpretation is correct (at least to some extent). I wasn't really suggesting that they meant to use the strong predilection sense of "love" (like "I love ice-cream"). Rather, I was suggesting that they were being lazy/loose in their writing to use "love" where they really mean something else.
A hunter eventually gains familiarity with the creatures hunted, and humans have a strong tendency to anthropomorphise which can lead them to think the apparent intimacy is reciprocated. The result is a misinterpretation of the creature's behaviour. And then there is the thrill of the chase, and once the adrenalin kicks in a person's systems are - to some extent - taken over by more primitive instincts. This is one way that hunting accidents happen, and it is one way in which people manage not to think so much about the violence of the act. Put together, the imagined intimacy of the relationship and the climactic highlights, I can see why some might find similarities to romantic love - or at least a "love affair", which can have less savoury connotations - but it comes across (to me) the same as a stalker claiming to love the object of their affection: rather creepy and distasteful. But unlike with the stalker, I don't see this use of "love" by hunters as a moral escape - or not of the killing itself. In most cases the hunter will have already justified the killing (rightly or wrongly) before it gets to the stage of "love". Instead, I see the use of "love" being a way to try and excuse or explain the thrill/buzz/excitement that comes with the hunt. The spark of adrenalin is real, but no one is supposed to say that they enjoy killing, so they look around for a more acceptable description, and what could be more acceptable than love? |
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