The Doomsday Book - Connie Willis

leebase · 12-14-2010, 01:18 PM

The Doomsday Book - Connie Willis

I "read" this book via audible.com, and the audio portion of the book (reading, characters) was excellent. The content of the book, well, let's just say I remain puzzled by the awards Connie Willis wins.

I love sci fi, and I particularly like time travel books. Connie Willis is a multiple award winner (10 Hugos, 6 Nebulas) and she writes sci fi books with time travel. Should be a no brainer that I would like her books. But no, I have suffered misrably through each and every one of them, The Doomsday Book being the last and final book of hers that I plan on reading.

I just have no interest over what she seems to find so very interesting. Her book is filled to the brim with annoying characters treating each other badly -- and the effect is merely to annoy ME, the reader.

She uses time travel -- but does this book cover any important historical characters? No. Interesting details about the past that edify? No. Interesting use of time travel and it's impact on the present? No. Drama? Well, yeah. The usual "time travelor gets stuck in the past" is the main plot. The ending of the book, with the resolution of the time travelor, is she rescued or not, is actually well done and satisfying. But it's all the stuff in the middle of the book, which takes up 90% of the book -- which is filled with endless prattle.

I felt the same way about Black Out -- which is a double thick book that, unbeknownst to me, was turned into two volumes. So you didn't even get the satisfying resolution. The story just abruptly stops and you find out that the conclusion will come in a year with the next book. No thanks, I no longer care at all to suffer through this woman's writing.

Maybe it's a gender thing. Maybe women LOVE all the details that Willis puts in her books the way I like Tom Clancey's detailed descriptions of weapons and tactics. Well, whatever it is, I can't recommend this book, though it is a Hugo/Nebula award winner. I'm just glad I got through this books as it took almost all year to listen to it via audible. I listen to lots of thick books via audible, and actually pick nice long books just for the extra value. In Willis' case, it just means extra torture for me.

Lee

SeaBookGuy · 12-14-2010, 01:29 PM

I, too, listened to the audio; agreed - the narration was good, the content ... not so much. Best part were the scenes in the past, but the present (future), were pretty bad. Even as the book went to press folks had answering machines (and pagers), with commonality of mobile phones right there on the near horizon. Yet, 50 years from now folks sit around waiting for phone calls as though it were the 1960's? Zzzzzzzzzzzz

On the other hand, I absolutely loved To Say Nothing of the Dog.

DixieGal · 12-14-2010, 01:29 PM

I like Willis' work, but IMO, her short stories are her strong suit.

boydcarts · 12-14-2010, 07:02 PM

I have to put in another vote for To Say Nothing of the Dog. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I found the story and characters lots of fun (especially the dog).

DiapDealer · 12-14-2010, 07:04 PM

Loved, loved, loved The Doomsday Book (no it's not a gender thing), Lincoln's Dreams, and the short-story collection Impossible Things.

To each their own, I guess.

ATDrake · 12-14-2010, 07:25 PM

Naturally, one's mileage will vary depending on what one expects to get from a time-travel story (thrilling introductions of tech to ward off the dark ages, nifty timeline-jumping alternate universe crossovers, plots to foil hidden history point-of-departure and make the world as it should be, islands in the sea of time populated by men who fold themselves, etc.).

The appeal of Doomsday Book (which, incidentally, is one of my favourites) is not that it's a time-travel story, but rather it's a story about human relationships and the caring and concern we take for each other and the stresses that forge these bonds even between people we don't like and who don't like us either, which just happens to use a time-travel framework to express all these things.

The novella Fire Watch (available to read free online at the now-defunct-but-still-available Infinity Plus magazine) encapsulates all this very neatly in fewer words.

For what it's worth, I felt Black Out and All Clear dragged and suffered greatly from being basically one book that was forcibly split into two because it was cheaper for the publisher to print two shorter books than one long one (an industry change which also affected Lois McMaster Bujold's Sharing Knife series and Peter Watts' third Rifters book, Behemoth [split into B-Max and Seppuku in print form], for the worse).

I still enjoyed most of it anyway despite that. But it's not nearly as good as Doomsday Book or To Say Nothing of the Dog.

ardeegee · 12-14-2010, 07:52 PM

I'm male and a fan of most of Williseses writing (including Doomsday Book, which I read before the Hugo.) But Night Watch/All Clear really, really needed to be several hundred pages shorter.

leebase · 12-15-2010, 01:12 AM

Go to the past, and don't talk about any historically significant people. Tell the story of one set of mostly miserable people. Really really go on about how miserable they are. Have them long for and wait for something that never happens. Then kill them each and every one slowly with disease. Tell of each death in repetitive detail.

It's a timeless story for sure. It could be told of any group of people any time and be a story utterly uninteresting TO ME.

Wrap it in the merest veneer of science fiction and time travel....and you can entice me to read it......but not to have enjoyed the experience.

Lee

Elfwreck · 12-15-2010, 01:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by leebase

The Doomsday Book - Connie Willis

I "read" this book via audible.com, and the audio portion of the book (reading, characters) was excellent. The content of the book, well, let's just say I remain puzzled by the awards Connie Willis wins.

I'm not remotely puzzled by that one winning the Hugo.

The year it was nominated, Worldcon was in San Francisco, and a free copy was given out at the door with every membership package. (So were a couple of others; possibly Barnes & Niven's Achilles' Choice.)

Giving away free copies wouldn't make it win if it were crap. I liked it fine; I can't remember if I voted for it or didn't vote on the grounds that I'd never heard of most of the nominees. Having a free copy made it *noticeable,* stand out from the list in a way that most nominees don't. Any kind of presentation at Worldcon has a chance of getting that nominee the Hugo--a reading from the book or of the short story, freebies, themed t-shirts, whatever.

The Hugo's a popularity contest. It's not a bad one; it can't be outright bought, and lots of at-con promos don't guarantee a win. But it's not a measure of literary quality; it's a measure of "what readers this year liked." And "liked" doesn't always mean "liked to read it."

Which doesn't explain her winning the Nebula that year; that one's judged by people who have serious literary preferences about the genre.

Quote:

I just have no interest over what she seems to find so very interesting. Her book is filled to the brim with annoying characters treating each other badly -- and the effect is merely to annoy ME, the reader.

I didn't find the characters annoying, nor did I think they treated each other badly. (Different tastes. Not saying you shouldn't have.)

Quote:

She uses time travel -- but does this book cover any important historical characters? No. Interesting details about the past that edify?

The details she shared were fascinating to me, but I was a longtime Renfaire participant.

Quote:

But it's all the stuff in the middle of the book, which takes up 90% of the book -- which is filled with endless prattle.
...
Maybe it's a gender thing. Maybe women LOVE all the details that Willis puts in her books the way I like Tom Clancey's detailed descriptions of weapons and tactics.

Could be. I loved the middle part of the book and considered the ending "something kinda thrown in there so it would have a way to wrap up."

caleb72 · 12-15-2010, 02:19 AM

I really loved Doomsday Book. It's one of my favourite books. It was this book that caused me to systematically hunt down all books by Connie Willis.

Regards
Caleb

tompe · 12-15-2010, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elfwreck

The year it was nominated, Worldcon was in San Francisco, and a free copy was given out at the door with every membership package. (So were a couple of others; possibly Barnes & Niven's Achilles' Choice.)

Giving away free copies wouldn't make it win if it were crap. I liked it fine; I can't remember if I voted for it or didn't vote on the grounds that I'd never heard of most of the nominees. Having a free copy made it *noticeable,* stand out from the list in a way that most nominees don't. Any kind of presentation at Worldcon has a chance of getting that nominee the Hugo--a reading from the book or of the short story, freebies, themed t-shirts, whatever.

The Hugo's a popularity contest. It's not a bad one; it can't be outright bought, and lots of at-con promos don't guarantee a win. But it's not a measure of literary quality; it's a measure of "what readers this year liked." And "liked" doesn't always mean "liked to read it."

It also got very good reviews and it was a book people talked about. Connie Willis is also an old fan and very popular and very funny in panels. I liked The Doomsday Book but some other Connie Willis books are better.

BenG · 12-15-2010, 11:51 PM

It not only won the Hugo (a fan award), the SF writers association gave it a Nebula award. Also the Locus magazine readers' poll for best novel.

jehane · 12-16-2010, 06:03 AM

I've read a number of her short stories and novellas, but not yet any of her full length novels. Having been highly recommended by friends, when I came across the Uncharted Territory collection in a 2nd hand bookshop I picked it up. While I love the title work and Even the Queen, I was less enthused by Fire Watch. Given that most of the novels have a similar premise to Fire Watch, I've been putting off reading them. But they are still in my TBR list. I've also read a few online freebies that were a bit variable.

FatDog · 12-16-2010, 06:39 PM

Quote:

I have to put in another vote for To Say Nothing of the Dog. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I found the story and characters lots of fun (especially the dog).

I loved "To say nothing of the dog". I went to Gutenburg to get a copy of "3 men and a boat" which is the classic novel that makes an appearance in TSND.

(How many other books made you want to go read other books?)

But I was also confused by the awards won by "The Doomsday Book". It just did not click with me. But sometimes I am in the mood for steak and sometimes for ice cream so I chalked it up to not being in the right frame of mind to appreciate it.

ardeegee · 12-16-2010, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FatDog

I loved "To say nothing of the dog". I went to Gutenburg to get a copy of "3 men and a boat" which is the classic novel that makes an appearance in TSND.

Better copy here:

https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48377

12-14-2010, 01:18 PM	#1
leebase Karma Kameleon Posts: 2,934 Karma: 26616647 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn	The Doomsday Book - Connie Willis The Doomsday Book - Connie Willis I "read" this book via audible.com, and the audio portion of the book (reading, characters) was excellent. The content of the book, well, let's just say I remain puzzled by the awards Connie Willis wins. I love sci fi, and I particularly like time travel books. Connie Willis is a multiple award winner (10 Hugos, 6 Nebulas) and she writes sci fi books with time travel. Should be a no brainer that I would like her books. But no, I have suffered misrably through each and every one of them, The Doomsday Book being the last and final book of hers that I plan on reading. I just have no interest over what she seems to find so very interesting. Her book is filled to the brim with annoying characters treating each other badly -- and the effect is merely to annoy ME, the reader. She uses time travel -- but does this book cover any important historical characters? No. Interesting details about the past that edify? No. Interesting use of time travel and it's impact on the present? No. Drama? Well, yeah. The usual "time travelor gets stuck in the past" is the main plot. The ending of the book, with the resolution of the time travelor, is she rescued or not, is actually well done and satisfying. But it's all the stuff in the middle of the book, which takes up 90% of the book -- which is filled with endless prattle. I felt the same way about Black Out -- which is a double thick book that, unbeknownst to me, was turned into two volumes. So you didn't even get the satisfying resolution. The story just abruptly stops and you find out that the conclusion will come in a year with the next book. No thanks, I no longer care at all to suffer through this woman's writing. Maybe it's a gender thing. Maybe women LOVE all the details that Willis puts in her books the way I like Tom Clancey's detailed descriptions of weapons and tactics. Well, whatever it is, I can't recommend this book, though it is a Hugo/Nebula award winner. I'm just glad I got through this books as it took almost all year to listen to it via audible. I listen to lots of thick books via audible, and actually pick nice long books just for the extra value. In Willis' case, it just means extra torture for me. Lee

12-14-2010, 07:04 PM	#5
DiapDealer Grand Sorcerer Posts: 27,550 Karma: 193191846 Join Date: Jan 2010 Device: Nexus 7, Kindle Fire HD	Loved, loved, loved The Doomsday Book (no it's not a gender thing), Lincoln's Dreams, and the short-story collection Impossible Things. To each their own, I guess. Last edited by DiapDealer; 12-14-2010 at 07:18 PM.

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12-14-2010, 01:29 PM	#2
SeaBookGuy Can one read too much? Posts: 2,015 Karma: 2487799 Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: Naples, FL Device: Kindle PW 3, Sony 350 and 650	I, too, listened to the audio; agreed - the narration was good, the content ... not so much. Best part were the scenes in the past, but the present (future), were pretty bad. Even as the book went to press folks had answering machines (and pagers), with commonality of mobile phones right there on the near horizon. Yet, 50 years from now folks sit around waiting for phone calls as though it were the 1960's? Zzzzzzzzzzzz On the other hand, I absolutely loved To Say Nothing of the Dog.

12-14-2010, 01:29 PM	#3
DixieGal Hi There! Posts: 7,473 Karma: 2930523 Join Date: Feb 2008 Location: Ft Lauderdale Device: iPad	I like Willis' work, but IMO, her short stories are her strong suit.

12-14-2010, 07:02 PM	#4
boydcarts Connoisseur Posts: 85 Karma: 30 Join Date: Feb 2009 Device: Nook WiFi, iPad2	I have to put in another vote for To Say Nothing of the Dog. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I found the story and characters lots of fun (especially the dog).

12-14-2010, 07:25 PM	#6
ATDrake Wizzard Posts: 11,517 Karma: 33048258 Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Roundworld Device: Kindle 2 International, Sony PRS-T1, BlackBerry PlayBook, Acer Iconia	Naturally, one's mileage will vary depending on what one expects to get from a time-travel story (thrilling introductions of tech to ward off the dark ages, nifty timeline-jumping alternate universe crossovers, plots to foil hidden history point-of-departure and make the world as it should be, islands in the sea of time populated by men who fold themselves, etc.). The appeal of Doomsday Book (which, incidentally, is one of my favourites) is not that it's a time-travel story, but rather it's a story about human relationships and the caring and concern we take for each other and the stresses that forge these bonds even between people we don't like and who don't like us either, which just happens to use a time-travel framework to express all these things. The novella Fire Watch (available to read free online at the now-defunct-but-still-available Infinity Plus magazine) encapsulates all this very neatly in fewer words. For what it's worth, I felt Black Out and All Clear dragged and suffered greatly from being basically one book that was forcibly split into two because it was cheaper for the publisher to print two shorter books than one long one (an industry change which also affected Lois McMaster Bujold's Sharing Knife series and Peter Watts' third Rifters book, Behemoth [split into B-Max and Seppuku in print form], for the worse). I still enjoyed most of it anyway despite that. But it's not nearly as good as Doomsday Book or To Say Nothing of the Dog.

12-14-2010, 07:52 PM	#7
ardeegee Maratus speciosus butt Posts: 3,292 Karma: 1162698 Join Date: Sep 2009 Device: PRS-350	I'm male and a fan of most of Williseses writing (including Doomsday Book, which I read before the Hugo.) But Night Watch/All Clear really, really needed to be several hundred pages shorter.

12-15-2010, 01:12 AM	#8
leebase Karma Kameleon Posts: 2,934 Karma: 26616647 Join Date: Aug 2009 Device: iPad Mini, iPhone X, Kindle Fire Tab HD 8, Walmart Onn	Go to the past, and don't talk about any historically significant people. Tell the story of one set of mostly miserable people. Really really go on about how miserable they are. Have them long for and wait for something that never happens. Then kill them each and every one slowly with disease. Tell of each death in repetitive detail. It's a timeless story for sure. It could be told of any group of people any time and be a story utterly uninteresting TO ME. Wrap it in the merest veneer of science fiction and time travel....and you can entice me to read it......but not to have enjoyed the experience. Lee

12-15-2010, 02:19 AM	#10
caleb72 Indie Advocate Posts: 2,863 Karma: 18794463 Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia Device: Kindle	I really loved Doomsday Book. It's one of my favourite books. It was this book that caused me to systematically hunt down all books by Connie Willis. Regards Caleb

12-15-2010, 11:51 PM	#12
BenG Home Guard Posts: 4,729 Karma: 86721650 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Alpha Ralpha Boulevard Device: Kindle Oasis 3G, iPhone 6	It not only won the Hugo (a fan award), the SF writers association gave it a Nebula award. Also the Locus magazine readers' poll for best novel.

12-16-2010, 06:03 AM	#13
jehane Book addict Posts: 441 Karma: 2650464 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Antarctica/Australia/Ohio Device: Sony PRS-300/T1/Asus TF101	I've read a number of her short stories and novellas, but not yet any of her full length novels. Having been highly recommended by friends, when I came across the Uncharted Territory collection in a 2nd hand bookshop I picked it up. While I love the title work and Even the Queen, I was less enthused by Fire Watch. Given that most of the novels have a similar premise to Fire Watch, I've been putting off reading them. But they are still in my TBR list. I've also read a few online freebies that were a bit variable.

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