New Kobo User becomes burned EX-Kobo user aka KOBO is horrible

[DNSB]

Originally Posted by tvuongpham

Interesting thank you for you input. And translation of Canadian law. :-)

If it helps you, checking American law:

"A voluntary transfer of property or of a property interest from one individual to another, made gratuitously to the recipient. The individual who makes the gift is known as the donor, and the individual to whom the gift is made is called the donee."

"Delivery can only occur when the donor surrenders control of the property."

Both legal definitions seems to require two persons making impossible for you to give a gift to yourself under that definition.

You can trace both Canadian and American definitions back to British Common Law if you want to take the trouble. So it would appear that by claiming you received the Kobo as a gift, you were playing fast and loose with the definition of "gift". Continuing on this pseudo-legalistic path, since you intentionally made an statement which was lacking in veracity in an attempt to receive warranty service to which you might not be entitled and looking at the California statutes on fraud, the phrase "by misleading another to his prejudice" rather springs to the eye (CA civil code 1573). That comment brought to you by my favourite law student.

Looking over your statements, I've seen quite a few items that were repackaged to look as if they were factory sealed down to heatshrunk plastic wrap on the package so unless you are able to demonstrate that you were the first retail purchaser of the ereader, possibly by getting your eBay vendor to supply the required evidence, I can not blame Kobo for wanting you to supply some proof that the ereader is still within the warranty period and your purchase was the original retail sale.

This discussion gave me something to do while waiting for a SAN to rebuild replaced hard drives. Just damn luck that I originally set up the SAN as RAID 6 since two drives had failed and the hot spare was being used while no one noticed the emails about the failures. "The IT gal left about 5 months ago and we haven't replaced her yet but my nephew has been looking after the systems" to quote the IT manager. I had to wonder what an IT manager with no IT staff does... Lends me his watch so I can tell him what time it is comes to mind.

[davidfor]

Originally Posted by DNSB

This discussion gave me something to do while waiting for a SAN to rebuild replaced hard drives. Just damn luck that I originally set up the SAN as RAID 6 since two drives had failed and the hot spare was being used while no one noticed the emails about the failures. "The IT gal left about 5 months ago and we haven't replaced her yet but my nephew has been looking after the systems" to quote the IT manager. I had to wonder what an IT manager with no IT staff does... Lends me his watch so I can tell him what time it is comes to mind.

I encountered a few companies like that in my last job. If the nephew was anything like the nephews, sons, neighbour's sons that I saw, two dead drives in a SAN is means they are getting off pretty light. What some of these kids did to the companies networks was horrific.

[tvuongpham]

Originally Posted by DNSB

If it helps you, checking American law:

"A voluntary transfer of property or of a property interest from one individual to another, made gratuitously to the recipient. The individual who makes the gift is known as the donor, and the individual to whom the gift is made is called the donee."

"Delivery can only occur when the donor surrenders control of the property."

Both legal definitions seems to require two persons making impossible for you to give a gift to yourself under that definition.

You can trace both Canadian and American definitions back to British Common Law if you want to take the trouble. So it would appear that by claiming you received the Kobo as a gift, you were playing fast and loose with the definition of "gift". Continuing on this pseudo-legalistic path, since you intentionally made an statement which was lacking in veracity in an attempt to receive warranty service to which you might not be entitled and looking at the California statutes on fraud, the phrase "by misleading another to his prejudice" rather springs to the eye (CA civil code 1573). That comment brought to you by my favourite law student.

Looking over your statements, I've seen quite a few items that were repackaged to look as if they were factory sealed down to heatshrunk plastic wrap on the package so unless you are able to demonstrate that you were the first retail purchaser of the ereader, possibly by getting your eBay vendor to supply the required evidence, I can not blame Kobo for wanting you to supply some proof that the ereader is still within the warranty period and your purchase was the original retail sale.

I like your style.. you do not attack "ad hominem"
Interpretation of the statue is key.
Vendor and consumer intention. Not to defraud is key.
Warranted valid warranty would be up to the law of the land and support of the institution. Reference; http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/m...tion/index.htm

Herein the rub.. definition of retail and gift.

Originally Posted by DNSB

This discussion gave me something to do while waiting for a SAN to rebuild replaced hard drives. Just damn luck that I originally set up the SAN as RAID 6 since two drives had failed and the hot spare was being used while no one noticed the emails about the failures. "The IT gal left about 5 months ago and we haven't replaced her yet but my nephew has been looking after the systems" to quote the IT manager. I had to wonder what an IT manager with no IT staff does... Lends me his watch so I can tell him what time it is comes to mind.

The point of the forum is discussion. Not everyone will agree nor disagree.

R6 is good, but not perfect. A valid SAN would have "call home features" and multiple contact points. I had a customer with failed hot spares and failed parity drives as well... bad juju

Don't mis-understand. I had more faith in the manufacture and higher expectations of the hw manufacture....
Case in point.. i have had not follow up discussion from the Kobo product manager. I don't really expect any resolution from that....

Level headed discussions in mobileread forums make this place worth visiting...

Agreed not everyone will agree about everything./


old joke:

There is an OLD story about the data center of the future.

This data center runs 24/7 with only a man and a dog.

The man's job is to feed the dog.

The dog's job is to make sure the man does not touch the computer.

[Sonist]

Originally Posted by eschwartz

Not necessarily.

Let us say Amazon sold a defective Kindle. The purchaser called Amazon CS, and got a replacement. Amazon said, don't bother shipping us the defective unit.

Purchaser sells defective unit on ebay.
Sap second purchaser buys the defective unit, discovers it is defective, calls Amazon CS to complain.


What should Amazon do?

Actually, if the seller knowingly sold a defective and blacklisted unit without disclosing it, it's likely fraud. If the seller doesn't issue a full refund, the appropriate parties to contact would be Ebay, Paypal and the credit card company.

[eschwartz]

Originally Posted by Sonist

Actually, if the seller knowingly sold a defective and blacklisted unit without disclosing it, it's likely fraud. If the seller doesn't issue a full refund, the appropriate parties to contact would be Ebay, Paypal and the credit card company.

Is that just because of the blacklisting, which AFAIK is Amazon-specific (I don't know if Kobo has a blacklisting procedure, or for that matter if they ever say "shipping it back costs too much money, just keep the defective unit")?

Or are you saying the sale of a known defective unit is fraud? That would be something difficult to prove to Paypal -- the "knowingly" bit.


In this case, it *seems* the OP bought from a seller that knowingly sold a defective unit.
So, is that Kobo's responsibility?
You seem to agree it wouldn't be Amazon's responsibility.

[WT Sharpe]

Moderator Notice
This thread is going nowhere fast and is therefore being closed. SameerH has already offered his help as an official representative of Kobo, and we suggest tvuongpham accept it instead of creating ever more threads to deal with this issue.