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Old 09-11-2020, 11:24 AM   #1
PHigby
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Choosing the display of characters

I create linguistic epubs for a non-profit. Currently we have an ePub that the author is requesting his book to be in Gentium font and to display the "opentail" g [a circle with a tail that points left or 'single-storey'] over the "looptail" [two circles, connected by a line on the left side or 'double-storey'].

I created a test epub and font in normal or bold I get the looptail g, but in the italic form the opentail g is displayed.

This also effects the a [double-storey a and single-storey ɑ], likewise.

Is there any way to set the display for the reader?
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:30 AM   #2
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Not really a Sigil question. I'm moving your question to the general epub section where folks can help you with embedding fonts and such.
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Old 09-11-2020, 11:45 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHigby View Post
I create linguistic epubs for a non-profit. Currently we have an ePub that the author is requesting his book to be in Gentium font and to display the "opentail" g [a circle with a tail that points left or 'single-storey'] over the "looptail" [two circles, connected by a line on the left side or 'double-storey'].

I created a test epub and font in normal or bold I get the looptail g, but in the italic form the opentail g is displayed.

This also effects the a [double-storey a and single-storey ɑ], likewise.

Is there any way to set the display for the reader?
Did you embed the Gentium font in italic, as well as bold and regular? You say that the regular and bold both work--which tells me that either:
  • You're testing the ePUB on your own computer, in a desktop reader, and you have the Gentium font in bold and regular on your system, but not italic, or,
  • You've embedded the Gentium bold and regular, but not italic.
  • Is one of these correct?

How did you "call" the italic? In the CSS, that is? Are you sure that the italic face has the opentail?

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Old 09-11-2020, 03:07 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHigby View Post
I created a test epub and font in normal or bold I get the looptail g, but in the italic form the opentail g is displayed.
It's not a bug, it's a feature. For more information see the Italic Wikipedia page.
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:26 AM   #5
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Doitsu, I'm not reporting a bug, but I'm asking if in an ePub we can choose how the character is display using a specific font.
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:49 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by PHigby View Post
Doitsu, I'm not reporting a bug, but I'm asking if in an ePub we can choose how the character is display using a specific font.
Theoretically, it's possible to replace some glyphs in OpenType fonts with stylistic variants via stylistic sets or stylistic alternatives.

However, most epub readers and apps don't support OpenType features.

I.e., what you want to achieve can only be done by editing the font in a font editor.
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:49 AM   #7
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If a font supports it, and if the ePub renderer suports it, yes.
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:51 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jellby View Post
If a font supports it, and if the ePub renderer suports it, yes.
Not in enough cases. RMSDK used by Kobo does not support extended font features. ADE 2.0.1 (the version needed to make sure the DRM can be removed) does not support extended font features.
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Old 09-18-2020, 10:32 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHigby View Post
Doitsu, I'm not reporting a bug, but I'm asking if in an ePub we can choose how the character is display using a specific font.
Stupid question:

Which Gentium font are you running there? I've reviewed Gentium Book; Gentium Basic, and I do not see the glyph to which you refer. Which Gentium face(s) contain(s) this glyph? Yes, the italic face has an open-tail, but the regular and bold do not. That's why you are not seeing them.

(Unrelated comment--this is why you have to be careful when you choose fonts; many "free" fonts have this sort of typographic inconstancy, where you have loop tails for two faces and an open-tail for the other. Yes, creating an italic loop tail is harder, and it's not uncommon to see this very shift, in some fonts, but....)

So, unfortunately, you've wasted a lot of time, as the open-tail figure doesn't exist in the regular or bold faces, unless it's in a Gentium variant I haven't seen yet. Unless you pay someone to create an open-tail Regular and Bold version of the letter and edit the basic font and replace the double-loop with the open-tail...there isn't any way to get there from here.

Here's the thing--and we run into this all the time when we have a customer that asks us for a specific (but uncommon) character, like the Vietnamese characters that are typically replaced with more-common variants, in print/digital these days--you can use that particular glyph (if it's an alternate). BUT...if the book is then read on a device that doesn't honor embedded fonts, or the customer switches the font to something else, the likelihood is that this other font won't have that specific glyph, and then you get the dreaded small box with an X in it, to display something that isn't there.

Offered FWIW. This is why, for the record, I asked you about what fonts you'd embedded and how you called them. To restate, you're asking the device(s) or reader(s) to display characters in Regular and Bold faces that don't exist IN the font you're using.

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Old 09-18-2020, 10:33 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doitsu View Post
Theoretically, it's possible to replace some glyphs in OpenType fonts with stylistic variants via stylistic sets or stylistic alternatives.

However, most epub readers and apps don't support OpenType features.

I.e., what you want to achieve can only be done by editing the font in a font editor.
Doits:

The character he wants doesn't exist, in the faces he's using.

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Old 09-18-2020, 08:58 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PHigby View Post
Doitsu, I'm not reporting a bug, but I'm asking if in an ePub we can choose how the character is display using a specific font.
You can upload your chosen font on this helpful site (https://wakamaifondue.com/) and check the whole character set. If you find this character, you 'll be able to display it (at least on modern renderers).
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Old 09-18-2020, 09:40 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by roger64 View Post
You can upload your chosen font on this helpful site (https://wakamaifondue.com/) and check the whole character set. If you find this character, you 'll be able to display it (at least on modern renderers).
If I start screaming, is there someone here who will talk me down on this goddamned topic?????????

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Old 09-19-2020, 07:11 AM   #13
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Less coffee?

I get it. Lots of fonts simply don't have what the OP wanted.
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Old 09-19-2020, 11:03 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by Quoth View Post
Less coffee?
Are you implying that I might be overly fraught?

Quote:
I get it. Lots of fonts simply don't have what the OP wanted.
Yes, but you already KNOW that, Quoth, dear.

For anyone else: perhaps in my previous posts, I simply wasn't being adequately clear. The font faces in question do not have the open g character, period. Yes, the italic face does; but the others do not. This is akin to asking the renderer to turn a digital image of a dog into a cat.

It's not ADE or iBooks or whatever, or the software renderer. The character does not exist in that face. Tell the wanker client to pick an adult, grown-up, properly-created font face!

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Old 09-19-2020, 03:27 PM   #15
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So I presume wanting to use Comic Sans MS is out of the question Hitch?
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