Onyx Boox 60 Named Best eReader for Students!

[MikeOnyx]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

I went ahead and converted the PDF for Calc III into a mobi file to read in the Kindle...it's nothing short of awful. Part of that is the conversion process of course because on my laptop the file looks fine. But just the first page of content, pg. 3 of the actual meat of the book, is all screwed up. The very first graphic is moved ahead of the text, the page itself takes three screens on the Kindle, I see no reason it would be any different on any other 6" screen even if the formatting of the PDF is preserved because one would need to zoom the page down so far as to be all but unreadable. To me zooming around a page is not going to make digesting the subject any easier.

Most modern math texts are designed for a page with at least a 10" diagonal and some even larger...few will be in the 8"-9.7" format but those would not mean a lot of shrinkage and would likely be quite usable in their native PDF format. But a 6" device, not a chance.

If I had more time I would offer some screen captures but I am buried this week, including the trial for the DUI hint and run bastard who wrecked the front end of my vehicle while I dared have it in my driveway off the street then claimed he never even knew he hit it...three eye witnesses though so the DA is sending this POS to jail for criminal DUI Hit & Run. At least he had insurance...but that is going to take a fair amount of time beyond work as he is trying to get out of it...he blew 1.2 when the cops arrested him at his home the same night, about an 30-mins later.

I used the calculus PDF and took 2 pictures. Honestly, it doesn't look too bad. Of course, itself looked better than it does on the picture. Maybe I'm just biased. Please, I encourage any other Boox owner to try it. Thanks.

P.S. maybe the problem was the conversion process from PDF to Mobi.

[MikeOnyx]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Last, I would have loved a reader like device to keep my chem lab journals as well as course notes and of course working through complex math proofs or other problems. I know even back then I would have paid $500 for a math specific device with MathCad or Mathematica embedded in the firmware.

Hi,

Thanks for the suggestions. Let me talk to the development team and see if we can get in touch with Wolfram about creating a Mathematica application on the Boox.

[brecklundin]

Mike....sorry but that is beyond HORRIBLE and no way anyone can learn from a page which will have been broken into several sub-pages destroying the continuity of the equations. Rarely will you ever see a math text where the examples/solutions span other than the facing pages...which also represents a reason why textbooks are going to take a LOOOONG time to move to ereaders...many are engineered/designed to use two facing pages not flipping back and forth. But if given the ability to see at least one full page, I would say maybe some students would adapt OK but even if the formatting of the PDF is retained on a 6" panel device the page had to be split into multiple screens which adds a significant layer and distraction to the student.

But the example you show is just proof a 6" device has no place in a technical course yet. And any excuses offered is simply marketing wonk spin. Something I have no tolerance for what-so-ever.

Or as a potential customer I would counter with, OK, so the Boox 60 is the best of a room full of bad options...so, from that POV it's the best, feel better? I consider that intentional misinformation the leads to unreasonable assumptions on the part of the person shopping for a device for exactly what I have been describing. It shows a totally lack of concern for doing a job ethically rather than just pushing sales through the register.

Sorry, this is something I am pretty adamant about...and also am backed up by what the original Kindle DX trials showed and the universities involved reported...and those were 9." devices. Though I would say a 9.7" device with a Wacom would be light-years ahead of any 6" device as well as the DX (completely useless for most college student needs.

So, if your company is fine with being the best of a room full of bad options, great for you...

[brecklundin]

Originally Posted by MikeOnyx

Hi,

Thanks for the suggestions. Let me talk to the development team and see if we can get in touch with Wolfram about creating a Mathematica application on the Boox.

Dude!! THAT would be awesome...and if it could be a large, say 9.7" device....you would have a HUGE winner I think.

[brecklundin]

Hey Mike;

I wanted to explain why I sounded so terse in the post before my last one...we had an experience here with a rep from a certain device re-brander who spun every failure and failed promise into some sort of superficial positive. So, for me it's sort of a take-no-prisoners POV and I'm sure my comments came across as, well really pissy, sorry about that because I think your Onyx 60 is a great move forward by adding the Wacom. The Wacom is IDEAL for a research device as well as for a student device. So, I don't want to come across as saying your Onyx 60 is BAD but rather it's not a panacea as the title of the thread would imply. Every device falls short for some people and I was just pointing out why I see it as a problem for science majors. Those are the students in need of a really solid large format device.

Getting something from Wolfram would be genius even if it was a partnership to help create a firmware that enables complex textbook layouts. I remember when I bought my first copy of MathCad as a student because not a chance I could have afforded Mathematica...I mean it was like $750 back then...hehehehe and Mathcad as about $120 student price. I used it for all of my course work from that point forward since the equation editors in the word processors at the time were , well, crappy....hahaha...

Will keep any eye on the next gen from Onyx to see what fun comes next...but I also see it being a bit difficult to work up something for a cpu as found in most ereaders...then again even those are pretty darned these days.

Hope it all works out in the end!!

[MikeOnyx]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Hey Mike;

I wanted to explain why I sounded so terse in the post before my last one...we had an experience here with a rep from a certain device re-brander who spun every failure and failed promise into some sort of superficial positive. So, for me it's sort of a take-no-prisoners POV and I'm sure my comments came across as, well really pissy, sorry about that because I think your Onyx 60 is a great move forward by adding the Wacom. The Wacom is IDEAL for a research device as well as for a student device. So, I don't want to come across as saying your Onyx 60 is BAD but rather it's not a panacea as the title of the thread would imply. Every device falls short for some people and I was just pointing out why I see it as a problem for science majors. Those are the students in need of a really solid large format device.

Getting something from Wolfram would be genius even if it was a partnership to help create a firmware that enables complex textbook layouts. I remember when I bought my first copy of MathCad as a student because not a chance I could have afforded Mathematica...I mean it was like $750 back then...hehehehe and Mathcad as about $120 student price. I used it for all of my course work from that point forward since the equation editors in the word processors at the time were , well, crappy....hahaha...

Will keep any eye on the next gen from Onyx to see what fun comes next...but I also see it being a bit difficult to work up something for a cpu as found in most ereaders...then again even those are pretty darned these days.

Hope it all works out in the end!!

Hi again,

Don't worry about any criticism, we encourage it. It's what drives us to make better eReaders. From the entire posting, I've come to realize one thing you're really not supporting, and please correct me if I'm wrong. It's that a 6 inch is not practical for students, no matter what.

Don't get me wrong, as being someone who was recently a college student a few years back, I completely understand. A 9.7 inch is pretty essential. However, what you may not understand is we are using the Boox 60 as a testing device to figure out any kinks in the software or interface. At the moment, the usability (software and features) of the device is much more important. As you may understand, if we work out the details here in the Boox 60, releasing the 9.7 inch will be very smooth (which we are releasing later on this year anyways).

What we had hoped to accomplish by entering the Boox in this review is to get approval feature wise and overall opinion by college students. It seems the Boox has passed with flying colors. Now all that's left is to perfect the 9.7 inch's durability issues and it can be released.

Once again, please keep the criticism coming, it only makes us work harder. I will also keep people up to date with any relations on the Mathematica and MathCad part (if I'm allowed).

Oh and WACOM for 9.7 inch device is already in a few eReaders.

[brecklundin]

Thanks for getting where I was coming from. And I do appreciate the process takes time and the only way to improve is to put your products as well as yourself out there vulnerable to criticism. It speaks well of you and your company to know that when someone is critical it is not taken as a knock against the company even if it could have been perceived that way. I appreciate open and frank dialog as well.

And yeah, there are 9.7" Wacom devices out there already, but nothing seems really ideal just yet. I will eventually be going with a 9"+ device to complement the 5" Pocketbook 360. One for work and one for fun...but my real reason for waiting on a large format reader for now is I truly need color and am hoping for something close to a laptop replacement for most of my needs, including some lightweight use of Lightroom and/or Photoshop. For now the Edge if it was a full system running Win7 (a must for my needs which are locked in for vertical market apps I run and supporting apps I wrote as well), I would buy one tomorrow.

Whatever direction Onyx goes, and it looks promising from what has been seen so far, consumers will win. Lots of niches to fill and so many different needs and quirks among us readers/users...

[Darqref]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Mike....sorry but that is beyond HORRIBLE and no way anyone can learn from a page which will have been broken into several sub-pages destroying the continuity of the equations. Rarely will you ever see a math text where the examples/solutions span other than the facing pages...which also represents a reason why textbooks are going to take a LOOOONG time to move to ereaders...many are engineered/designed to use two facing pages not flipping back and forth. But if given the ability to see at least one full page, I would say maybe some students would adapt OK but even if the formatting of the PDF is retained on a 6" panel device the page had to be split into multiple screens which adds a significant layer and distraction to the student. (snip)

Actually, my first thought after reading this was that Ahi should be jumping in here....

I think that a small screen *could* work, but only if the texts were authored with the screen in mind. So they could adjust the writing and examples to fit on the screen, with page breaks designed to work with that page size.

So far, it seems that no publisher has even considered that idea. It would take a LOT of re-writing and/or editing to make a technical text work. Maybe Onyx could work with a publisher to organize such editing, but I doubt it would be cheap.

And I agree that the MathCad app would be very interesting. (of course I'm not likely to go back to school again now, but still....)

[LDBoblo]

Originally Posted by Darqref

Actually, my first thought after reading this was that Ahi should be jumping in here....

I think that a small screen *could* work, but only if the texts were authored with the screen in mind. So they could adjust the writing and examples to fit on the screen, with page breaks designed to work with that page size.

So far, it seems that no publisher has even considered that idea. It would take a LOT of re-writing and/or editing to make a technical text work. Maybe Onyx could work with a publisher to organize such editing, but I doubt it would be cheap.

And I agree that the MathCad app would be very interesting. (of course I'm not likely to go back to school again now, but still....)

I do believe formatting could be forced, with some effort, into a smaller screen. That doesn't really make it much more useful though, as it's still really slow and the input is still very low resolution.

It reminds me of something like a piano app for an iPhone. Sure, it almost works, and it's novel, but I doubt anyone's going to replace their piano with it unless they are really insecure about purchasing an iPhone.

[Jumpn Jack Flash]

Originally Posted by MikeOnyx

. Now all that's left is to perfect the 9.7 inch's durability issues and it can be released.

So a plastic/foil substrate with plastic cover is in the works. A large device (in deed all devices) should have no glass, too heavy and too fragile.

[MikeOnyx]

We brought the idea to Wolfram to put Mathematica onto the Boox. They are very interested. I'll be talking to one of their people later this afternoon. We'll see what happens.

[brecklundin]

Super Mike....a science orientated device would be a big boon the the cause for sure. What a great tool it would have been for me back in those skool years. Plus something like a device with something from Wolfram embeded also covers engineering majors as well though a few additions would need to evolve there, maybe...dunno, leave that to those smarter than me...

Not gonna happen tomorrow but will keep a very interested eye on it...

[MikeOnyx]

Originally Posted by brecklundin

Super Mike....a science orientated device would be a big boon the the cause for sure. What a great tool it would have been for me back in those skool years. Plus something like a device with something from Wolfram embeded also covers engineering majors as well though a few additions would need to evolve there, maybe...dunno, leave that to those smarter than me...

Not gonna happen tomorrow but will keep a very interested eye on it...

Ok so I talked to their Business Development Executive at Wolfram Alpha. Nice guy. He sounds very interested in developing something with Onyx and we talked a little about the layout. Will keep posted.

[MikeOnyx]

The video is up now at hackcollege.com