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Old Yesterday, 11:20 AM   #46
Phogg
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I can't read the article because it doesn't like ad blockers and I'm not about to shutdown my ad blocker.

Puff pieces about big name CEO's is a staple of these type of magazines. I've read such pieces about Steve Jobs and Bill Gates as well. Neither were exactly well known as people you particularly wanted to work for.
Or even have tangential business relationships with.
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Old Yesterday, 04:41 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
I get a kick out of people trying to exclude "already successful authors" from discussions about self-publishing (or better yet, excluding the self-pubbers that went on to get tradpub deals). It's probably because it doesn't slot in nicely with their preconceived notion that all self-published stuff is garbage. Reminds me of mainstream literature cherry-picking all the bright and shiny stuff from the ranks of genre fiction and then poo-pooing genre fiction as garbage.

"When I say 'self-published stuff is all garbage', I don't mean the good self-published stuff, I'm only talking about the garbage self-published stuff being garbage."
Of course, the whole "self-published stuff is all garbage" meme is purely a strawman argument. I haven't seen anyone say that self-published stuff is all garbage on this thread. What I've seen is people say that a lot of self published stuff is garbage and I don't want to filter through it, a very different point.

There are a lot of successful authors who self publish some of their books. Larry Correa has a number of books that are self published, mostly books that don't really fit in well with his other stories. I'm very fond of his Malcontents series, not strictly self published, but he does use a rather obscure publisher.

A lot of authors use self publishing for their backlist books. It seems to me that self publishing to make backlist books available is one place where self publishing really shines. I just wish there was a better way to be notified when that happens.
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Old Yesterday, 10:15 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
Of course, the whole "self-published stuff is all garbage" meme is purely a strawman argument. I haven't seen anyone say that self-published stuff is all garbage on this thread. What I've seen is people say that a lot of self published stuff is garbage and I don't want to filter through it, a very different point.
Quite right. No one, on either side of the discussion, has seriously argued on this thread that "self-published stuff is all garbage". Not even DiapDealer, who used it to illustrate a different point.

It seems to be common ground that without a gatekeeper there are a lot of self-published books which most of us would classify as garbage. Just what percentage, who knows. IMHO it is also true to say that there are a lot of self-published books which are not garbage. However, some clearly disagree with me on this, taking the view that there are only a small percentage of self-published books which are not garbage. DiapDealer clearly finds it amusing that some who take this view seek to justify it by excluding certain categories of self-published books. In the end it doesn't matter that greatly. Clearly even those who take the most extreme view acknowledge that there are self-published books worth reading.

Some posts say or sometimes imply, intentionally or otherwise, that it is a terribly onerous and time consuming task to find good Indie/Self-Published books. So much so that they prefer to stick to established traditional publishers. My personal experience is that finding good self-published books is neither terribly onerous nor terribly time-consuming. If your experience is different, I have no problem with it. Though I do believe you are missing out needlessly.

In replying to Mivo earlier I said I agreed with DiapDealer's #19, and therefore did not seek to repeat the points made in that post. But I find this paragraph particularly apt:

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The "hoops" you speak of quite are huge. You don't even have to jump though them. You merely have to pay attention and look where you're walking while you stroll through them. Much like readers have always done. No one has ever, in the history of book-reading, been able to choose books at utter random and have a high degree of confidence that they would be satisfied with those random picks. There has always been self-vetting and personal research needing to be done in order to find satisfactory books to read. They never did fall out of the sky from traditional publishers into the laps of readers to be loved.
And this:

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Nobody ever said; "Man, that book sucked. But I'm glad I read it because it was so, so, very competently edited."
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Old Today, 07:35 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by darryl View Post
Quite right. No one, on either side of the discussion, has seriously argued on this thread that "self-published stuff is all garbage". Not even DiapDealer, who used it to illustrate a different point.

It seems to be common ground that without a gatekeeper there are a lot of self-published books which most of us would classify as garbage. Just what percentage, who knows. IMHO it is also true to say that there are a lot of self-published books which are not garbage. However, some clearly disagree with me on this, taking the view that there are only a small percentage of self-published books which are not garbage. DiapDealer clearly finds it amusing that some who take this view seek to justify it by excluding certain categories of self-published books. In the end it doesn't matter that greatly. Clearly even those who take the most extreme view acknowledge that there are self-published books worth reading.

Some posts say or sometimes imply, intentionally or otherwise, that it is a terribly onerous and time consuming task to find good Indie/Self-Published books. So much so that they prefer to stick to established traditional publishers. My personal experience is that finding good self-published books is neither terribly onerous nor terribly time-consuming. If your experience is different, I have no problem with it. Though I do believe you are missing out needlessly.

In replying to Mivo earlier I said I agreed with DiapDealer's #19, and therefore did not seek to repeat the points made in that post. But I find this paragraph particularly apt:



And this:
At one time, back in the day, before all the publishers consolidated into a few mega corporations, quite a few publishing houses had a specific selection criteria, a voice if you will, that meant that, if you liked that criteria, then you liked most of the books that publishing house put out. Baen publishing was the most recent example, though it's voice has changed quite a bit since Baen died. It's been a while since I bought every baen monthly ebook bundle.

Tor publishing has a fairly consistent voice as well. I suspect this voice is what people are talking about when they talk about using publishers as a filter. So someone who is a fan is thinking Tor publishing, not Holtzbrinck, the parent company. I think if you think of it in that manner, the idea of a filter makes more sense.
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Old Today, 08:25 AM   #50
DiapDealer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pwalker8 View Post
At one time, back in the day, before all the publishers consolidated into a few mega corporations, quite a few publishing houses had a specific selection criteria, a voice if you will, that meant that, if you liked that criteria, then you liked most of the books that publishing house put out. Baen publishing was the most recent example, though it's voice has changed quite a bit since Baen died. It's been a while since I bought every baen monthly ebook bundle.

Tor publishing has a fairly consistent voice as well. I suspect this voice is what people are talking about when they talk about using publishers as a filter. So someone who is a fan is thinking Tor publishing, not Holtzbrinck, the parent company. I think if you think of it in that manner, the idea of a filter makes more sense.
Until the internet became household--and even only after ebooks had made their initial surge onto the scene--I couldn't have told you who published my favorite authors. It just never occurred to me. Publishing houses weren't relevant to me. They still aren't. I just finished a fairly popular backlist title by a fairly popular scifi author. Without going back and looking, I've no clue who published it.

Now maybe I'm the odd one out in that regard, but I doubt it. I've a feeling most readers (casual and avid alike) are unaware of any "voice" a particular publishing house might have. I would never assume I'm going to like something based on who published it. It wouldn't occur to me.

I know Tor publishes Science Fiction, but I wouldn't consider that a very helpful filter (assuming I even notice that a book is published by Tor). I don't like all science fiction, after all. I've tried to read a lot of tradpubbed, very competently edited scifi garbage.

Sorry, but I have to believe that readers who are publisher-sensitive (let alone publisher-centric) are a pretty niche group. Most are author- or genre-sensitive, and as a consequence, fairly publisher-agnostic/ignorant.
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Old Today, 09:38 AM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiapDealer View Post
Until the internet became household--and even only after ebooks had made their initial surge onto the scene--I couldn't have told you who published my favorite authors. It just never occurred to me. Publishing houses weren't relevant to me. They still aren't. I just finished a fairly popular backlist title by a fairly popular scifi author. Without going back and looking, I've no clue who published it.

Now maybe I'm the odd one out in that regard, but I doubt it. I've a feeling most readers (casual and avid alike) are unaware of any "voice" a particular publishing house might have. I would never assume I'm going to like something based on who published it. It wouldn't occur to me.

I know Tor publishes Science Fiction, but I wouldn't consider that a very helpful filter (assuming I even notice that a book is published by Tor). I don't like all science fiction, after all. I've tried to read a lot of tradpubbed, very competently edited scifi garbage.

Sorry, but I have to believe that readers who are publisher-sensitive (let alone publisher-centric) are a pretty niche group. Most are author- or genre-sensitive, and as a consequence, fairly publisher-agnostic/ignorant.
Exactly. I know that certain books are published by Tor because of the free monthly offering, and certain other books are published by Baen because up until a few years ago, the ebook versions of those books were only available direct from Baen. Other than that, I usually don't know what company (if any) published the book I'm reading...nor do I care. In the days before the Internet, I would choose books based on browsing the book store/library, or (rarely) because of a recommendation from someone else. I belonged to the Science Fiction book club for a few years, and got some good books from there, but I have no idea who published them, and not every book from there was to my taste.

I truly think that most people are more like DiapDealer and I in this regard. They don't know, or care, who published the book. They just read it. They go by recommendations from friends, (or celebrities), or they have a favorite author or genre, and that's it.

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