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Old 05-08-2018, 05:25 PM   #31
Marinolino
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Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
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I can sit on a bench in bright sunlight and use my ereader collection while my Nexus 7 tablet or iPad Pro are pretty much unusable unless I hold them at weird angles so I'm not looking at what amounts to a glossy mirror.
My iPad is very usable on every bench even in the bright sunlight, because I don't really care looking suspiciously eccentric, wearing dark Sunshade cap, yellow sunglasses and staring for an hour at something wrapped in the dark drawing paper box (with an ultra-matte screen protector thereon), occasionally meddling with it and casting a Mr. Bean-like smile or two around.

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Old 05-09-2018, 12:50 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by Marinolino View Post
My iPad is very usable on every bench even in the bright sunlight, because I don't really care looking suspiciously eccentric, wearing dark Sunshade cap, yellow sunglasses and staring for an hour at something wrapped in the dark drawing paper box (with an ultra-matte screen protector thereon), occasionally meddling with it and casting a Mr. Bean-like smile or two around.
Do you occasionally cackle as well? Or perhaps a "mmmmmwwwwahahahahahahaha"? Might as well go all in.

On a more serious note, my yellow driving glasses are also polarized which makes them useless with most LCD screens unless I rotate the screen to just the right angle.
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Old 05-09-2018, 04:56 PM   #33
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Me too. I'd prefer not to have the light on my paperwhite to be honest. (Yes, maybe I should have gone for the regular kindle instead of the paperwhite. Too late now.) I'm not even convinced the PW is better than my old keyboard kindle, which didn't have the light diffusion layer or the touchscreen.
The PW3 is better than the K3 because the PW3 has more system RAM, it runs the latest firmware for the latest features. When you see how lacking the firmware for Kindles such as the K3 is, you'll not want to use it. I've seen how awful the firmware is for the Kindle Touch and you do notice how much is missing.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:12 AM   #34
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Originally Posted by crane3 View Post
I found that FBReader on the ipad had a "white paper" that looks wood fiber texture; FBR also had the brown paper background that I liked more.

Then I checked if something was available on Moon+ Reader Pro & found it. The textured brown paper was at the next to the last choices, the white paper is previous to that. The last selection is lavender(?); haven't tried that as the textured brown paper is highly satisfactorily for me & no glare reading with my reading glasses.
I found FBReader has too many bells/whistles that do not have anything to do with enhancing reading such as fully following the CSS. That to me makes it more flash than substance.
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Old 05-10-2018, 04:50 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
I can sit on a bench in bright sunlight and use my ereader collection while my Nexus 7 tablet or iPad Pro are pretty much unusable unless I hold them at weird angles so I'm not looking at what amounts to a glossy mirror.
Not all eInk readers are usable in sunlight The Sony Readers with the added touch layer (PRS-600, PRS-900, PRS-700) are all like reading with a mirror. They also making the contract less and the text more fuzzy than it should be. Those ones listed are the exception.
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Old 05-11-2018, 08:04 AM   #36
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Originally Posted by Sarmat89 View Post
The main problem with E-ink legibility is bad black color and glare. The ink is at best deeply dark gray, and it is even worse when the ambient light glares off from the glass.
I just noticed this clearly for the first time. Combined with the grayish white the overall contrast level is not what it ideally would be. I have recently felt a bit off looking at the screen, especially compared side-by-side with a book page, I think it might be the lower contrast. Or I might just be reading too much. In either case, I'l try to use the frontlight all the time as a boost to see what that does, as suggested by some.

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Old 05-11-2018, 11:05 PM   #37
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It depends on a book's quality. There is a substantial difference between an expensive book made of nice paper (and good ink) and a cheap paper book. The readability of the former is higher than that of a 300 dpi e-ink reader, but the e-ink reader beats any cheap(er) paperback book in that regard.

As for LCD displays, they don't really work for me for book reading. I try every once in a while (iPad, 5.5" smartphone), but after a book or two the eye strain is noticeable. Not to mention the speed at which the battery drains, the distractions and the glare. If devices with LCD displays were the only way to read e-books, I'd never have migrated to them.

I love quality paper books and the experience they offer, but they clash a little with my minimalist desires and having a small apartment. I still do buy paper books, just much fewer than I used to.
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Old 05-12-2018, 11:33 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by JohnDae View Post
I make some observations based on couple of weeks of experience with modern e-ink e-paper E-reader device.

Generally, the readability is much better than other display technologies but still ways off from ink on paper.

First, the 'white' is gray which means much more light is necessary to read compared to white or creamy yellow book paper. This often means I have to setup special lighting to read whereas a book would be fine as is.
I agree. Even decades old aged mass market paperbacks have better contrast. But only one company is making these screens, and with a monopoly there is no pressure to innovate. It has been several years since they have improved their screen. And even that was just a minor uptick in contrast.

And as you can see from the replies here, even people so passionate about ereaders that they would regularly post on this forum don't care. The band-aid that is the frontlight is good enough for them that they don't seem to want anything better. So what incentive does Eink have to make a great screen? None. So don't expect this to change ever.
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Old 05-12-2018, 03:03 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by haydnfan View Post
I agree. Even decades old aged mass market paperbacks have better contrast. But only one company is making these screens, and with a monopoly there is no pressure to innovate. It has been several years since they have improved their screen. And even that was just a minor uptick in contrast.

And as you can see from the replies here, even people so passionate about ereaders that they would regularly post on this forum don't care. The band-aid that is the frontlight is good enough for them that they don't seem to want anything better. So what incentive does Eink have to make a great screen? None. So don't expect this to change ever.
I think you seriously underestimate the complexity of what E-Ink have done. You seem to think that all they have to do is try a bit and they could make the displays way better. You should look into the details of the display technology, if only to appreciate what is there, and how difficult it is to improve what they already have. I believe that they are continually trying to improve their displays, it's just that there is no easy way to do that. I suspect that a completely different technology will be required to make a display that rivals good paper and ink, and so it probably won't be E-Ink who come up with it. The fact that no one else has any idea how to do it tells you that it's not a simple matter that anyone with "incentive" would quickly figure out.
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Old 05-16-2018, 03:44 AM   #40
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I feel that starting to always use the frontlight greatly reduced eye fatigue I was getting from my e-reader. The light improves apparent display whiteness which makes reading easier. I only use it as complementary to external light. Only on a bright day outside I don't need to use it.

So I can now see why they made the engineering choise to go for the frontlight and the light diffusion layer. It can help readability, even if it is a compromise and tries to make up for lack of whiteness and contrast.

My initial plan was to read only under daylight and incandescent bulb but it seems I'd need much more paper like contrast for that from e-paper.

Last edited by JohnDae; 05-16-2018 at 05:38 AM.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:17 AM   #41
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Interesting theme Personally I need almost the same light to read on my Oasis2 as well as I need with my books.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:45 PM   #42
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i don't even know why this discussion is so long. there is no argument that ink on paper will always trump the text on an e-ink device. the question is, of all the electronic forms of reading, which comes closest to ink on paper? for most, the answer is e-ink. and the reason people don't use paper books as much is because they can't carry all the paper books they want to read. but with an e-ink device, they can have all the books they want with them at all times without having to lug around hundreds/thousands of pounds.
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Old 05-16-2018, 04:52 PM   #43
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For me, it’s the ability to increase the font size. If a Kindle (any e-ink device) lacked that ability, it wouldn’t matter to me how many books it could hold. I need to be able to see the words on the screen.
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Old 05-16-2018, 09:56 PM   #44
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I agree. Even decades old aged mass market paperbacks have better contrast.
I only have a couple of hundred "old aged mass market paperbacks" left in my collection. I eventually got rid of all my other paperbacks after I got an ereader. and I can tell you that the contrast definitely does NOT have as good a contrast as my Kobo or my Nook ST.

Most of the paperbacks are Ace doubles from the sixties. The paper is a litlle coarse and has browned since they were printed in the sixties. This is similar to other older paperback I have seen.

It is possible that some "old aged mass market paperbacks" were produced to a better quality but if so I have not seen them.

Last edited by Thasaidon; 05-16-2018 at 09:58 PM. Reason: typos
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