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Old 05-10-2018, 05:14 AM   #1
FrustratedReader
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Paragraph indent problem

The first line indent of a paragraph is half size on the Kobo.

I'm nearly sure there must two different CSS methods for indent of first line.
I didn't use to have the problem. It's happened either since a Kobo update, a LibreOffice update or a Calibre update

eReader: Kobo Aura H2O (original).
Conversion: Calibre (up to date)
Source: ODT format from LibreOffice writer (from distro)
OS: Linux Mint 18.3 with Mate Desktop and TraditionalOK theme

Basically if I use original document paragraph in Calibre Conversion, I get an indent half of what it should be on the Kobo. The indent is correct on ancient Binatone ReadMe Daily (if the ePub is in the Digital Editions folder). The indent is correct on Calibre's own PC eReader using ePub. The indent is correct converted to Mobi on Kindle DXG and correct on

If I use "remove blank lines" and forced 1.5em I get the "correct indent" on the Kobo, same as on the Binatone & Calibre eReader, the sort of size I used to get. If I double the Point size of Indent in LibreOffice Writer, then the indent is correct on the Kobo, but x2 on everything else (approximately).

If I convert a mobi or AZW file from Amazon, Smashwords or Gutenberg, or use an ePub from Smashwords or Gutenberg, the indent seems sensible.

Obviously Calibre has two different ways of setting the indent, one of which is used for Wordprocessor source. Something has changed in either the Kobo, Calibre or LibreOffice. Since exact ePub with wrong Indent on Kobo is OK on the Binatone Readme and the Calibre eReader, I suspect a Kobo update.
I've had a number of updates, now on 4.7.10413 (I avoided the 4.8 after reading thread here).

Any ideas how to fix this or get round it other than forcing the 1.5em indent which can cause issues for text with a deliberately different indent to main body?
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Old 05-10-2018, 01:27 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrustratedReader View Post
The first line indent of a paragraph is half size on the Kobo.

I'm nearly sure there must two different CSS methods for indent of first line.
I didn't use to have the problem. It's happened either since a Kobo update, a LibreOffice update or a Calibre update

eReader: Kobo Aura H2O (original).
Conversion: Calibre (up to date)
Source: ODT format from LibreOffice writer (from distro)
OS: Linux Mint 18.3 with Mate Desktop and TraditionalOK theme

Basically if I use original document paragraph in Calibre Conversion, I get an indent half of what it should be on the Kobo. The indent is correct on ancient Binatone ReadMe Daily (if the ePub is in the Digital Editions folder). The indent is correct on Calibre's own PC eReader using ePub. The indent is correct converted to Mobi on Kindle DXG and correct on

If I use "remove blank lines" and forced 1.5em I get the "correct indent" on the Kobo, same as on the Binatone & Calibre eReader, the sort of size I used to get. If I double the Point size of Indent in LibreOffice Writer, then the indent is correct on the Kobo, but x2 on everything else (approximately).

If I convert a mobi or AZW file from Amazon, Smashwords or Gutenberg, or use an ePub from Smashwords or Gutenberg, the indent seems sensible.

Obviously Calibre has two different ways of setting the indent, one of which is used for Wordprocessor source. Something has changed in either the Kobo, Calibre or LibreOffice. Since exact ePub with wrong Indent on Kobo is OK on the Binatone Readme and the Calibre eReader, I suspect a Kobo update.
I've had a number of updates, now on 4.7.10413 (I avoided the 4.8 after reading thread here).

Any ideas how to fix this or get round it other than forcing the 1.5em indent which can cause issues for text with a deliberately different indent to main body?
Could you create a short epub with the problem and attach it to a message here. It makes troubleshooting much easier when you can look at the book code.

I haven't seen that issue with a Kobo update though I send sideloaded books to my Kobo as epubs so I am not sure if this issue would show with kepubs.
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Old 05-10-2018, 01:44 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by DNSB View Post
Could you create a short epub with the problem and attach it to a message here. It makes troubleshooting much easier when you can look at the book code.
Thanks.

I'll try chopping a short text from gutenberg that's been converted from mobi and a page of LibreOffice ODT converted to ePub.
Also same text with the Calibre working 1.5em option (which isn't always what you'd want, so not a workaround, my workaround is to double the point size on indents in LibreOffice for a copy saved specifically for Kobo. I use paragraph and page styles, so easy to make a custom version of a 125K book.
I should have looked at the css in Calibre, I suppose.
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Old 05-11-2018, 11:58 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrustratedReader View Post
Thanks.

I'll try chopping a short text from gutenberg that's been converted from mobi and a page of LibreOffice ODT converted to ePub.
Also same text with the Calibre working 1.5em option (which isn't always what you'd want, so not a workaround, my workaround is to double the point size on indents in LibreOffice for a copy saved specifically for Kobo. I use paragraph and page styles, so easy to make a custom version of a 125K book.
I should have looked at the css in Calibre, I suppose.
No rush on this, when you can get around to it works for me.
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Old 05-14-2018, 02:46 PM   #5
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I looked at the CSS of the ePub.
It's not complicated.
The 16pt indent for the main body text was being "converted" to 15.99pt. Or if it was set to 32pt to make it look right on the Kobo, it was also fractionalised. Then the Kobo displays half the size of indent approximately.
When explicitly set EXACTLY 16pt in the Calibre ePub CSS file, the Kobo H2O Aura displays correctly. Also even just setting the one body text size to 1.5em is about the same. 16pt is maybe a little more than 1.5em.

Aldiko and Binatone Readme Daily cope with indents in pt with two decimal places. (15.99pt looks like 16pt, not 8pt) The Kobo obviously sometimes doesn't.

Conclusions:
1) It's a bit weird that Calibre is slightly adjusting point sizes. Loads of things like 6.01 or 15.99 or something.34pt
2) Kobo FW 4.7.10413 doesn't like 15.99pt, it does about an 8pt indent, but a 16pt indent does display correctly. Other eBook readers and Apps don't seem to mind 15.99pt.

Weird.

At least I have a reasonable work around. Only takes a couple of minutes to replace all fractional margins & indents etc with whole numbers.

Though I THINK my LibreOffice source is consistent (and doesn't allow em), the CSS had %, pt, px, em and 'medium' for sizes of stuff!
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Old 05-14-2018, 06:53 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrustratedReader View Post
I looked at the CSS of the ePub.
It's not complicated.
The 16pt indent for the main body text was being "converted" to 15.99pt. Or if it was set to 32pt to make it look right on the Kobo, it was also fractionalised. Then the Kobo displays half the size of indent approximately.
When explicitly set EXACTLY 16pt in the Calibre ePub CSS file, the Kobo H2O Aura displays correctly. Also even just setting the one body text size to 1.5em is about the same. 16pt is maybe a little more than 1.5em.

Aldiko and Binatone Readme Daily cope with indents in pt with two decimal places. (15.99pt looks like 16pt, not 8pt) The Kobo obviously sometimes doesn't.

Conclusions:
1) It's a bit weird that Calibre is slightly adjusting point sizes. Loads of things like 6.01 or 15.99 or something.34pt
2) Kobo FW 4.7.10413 doesn't like 15.99pt, it does about an 8pt indent, but a 16pt indent does display correctly. Other eBook readers and Apps don't seem to mind 15.99pt.

Weird.

At least I have a reasonable work around. Only takes a couple of minutes to replace all fractional margins & indents etc with whole numbers.

Though I THINK my LibreOffice source is consistent (and doesn't allow em), the CSS had %, pt, px, em and 'medium' for sizes of stuff!
Sounds like you are in for a bit of fun. Regex may be your new best friend.
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Old 05-14-2018, 07:22 PM   #7
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The fraction sizes might be the result of Calibre Font Size scaling, you can try disabling that when you are converting to epub.

The pt size for indents is a little odd.. Libre office generally defines indents in in. or cm. not pt. Are your documents indented with tabs??
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Old 05-14-2018, 10:05 PM   #8
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Quote:
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The fraction sizes might be the result of Calibre Font Size scaling, you can try disabling that when you are converting to epub.

The pt size for indents is a little odd.. Libre office generally defines indents in in. or cm. not pt. Are your documents indented with tabs??
Inch or cm are also absolute measurements (72 pts to the inch) so calibre might be translating units.
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Old 05-15-2018, 03:58 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rashkae View Post
The fraction sizes might be the result of Calibre Font Size scaling, you can try disabling that when you are converting to epub.

The pt size for indents is a little odd.. Libre office generally defines indents in in. or cm. not pt. Are your documents indented with tabs??
LibreOffice Writer can be set to display in Point Size. You can still enter Inches or Metric (mm I think), say for page size and then it's displayed in point.

pt makes more sense for my paper versions, though em would be best for HTML and eBooks, but you can't enter em. Entering % for font size is possible.

I'm a bit baffled. Another conversion, after changing 15.99pt to 16pt in CSS has about half desired indent. Only wrong on Kobo.

I've ALSO discovered that "removing" a book, even on the Kobo, must not remove everything. If the "new" version "sideloaded" via USB has a different CSS to the last version the display can be totally messed up. You have to reset via the little hole at the bottom.

I'm baffled.
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Old 05-15-2018, 04:32 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by rashkae View Post
The fraction sizes might be the result of Calibre Font Size scaling, you can try disabling that when you are converting to epub.
No, the fractional indents occur if Font Size Scaling is disabled.

You do have to reset to reliably see any change.

However whatever I did earlier now isn't working, the indent on Kobo looks like about 8pt rather than 16pt for body text.

P.S.
I never enter tabs, more than one space or blank newlines. I use styles. The only exception being direct italics or bold within a sentence as the "character" styles seem to create a problem converting between different programs and formats. I use page styles (only important for printed, i.e. title, front papers, index, first page, default pages, endpapers) and paragraph styles (Heading 1 for Chapter Titles).

I will later put some short sample ePubs, source in .doc & .odt and the css of various options on one of my websites. I'll include the pages from Title to 2nd chapter of several books so all aspects are covered.
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