Can self-promotion go to far?

[taming]

A good friend of mine had a book published by a major publisher last year. Even in that situation, expectations have changed. She was encouraged by both her editor and her agent to develop a website (on her own), create a Facebook fan page, twitter, and interact with potential readers in numerous ways. She spends a fair amount of time doing promotion and expects it to payoff down the road when she is negotiating for her next book and as she develops a reader base.

Kudos to Richard (and others) who take the very big step of putting themselves out there where anyone with a keyboard can say whatever they wish about their books.

[Kevin2960]

Ficbot,

Is this not just another RE-HASHED attack on self publising authors, haven't we done this not long ago ?

I champion our authors here on MR, I understand that members hate endless spamming, I too get annoyed by it, but I do think we seem to also have endless witch hunts of our superb and supportive authors,

Can we not support them ?

[ficbot]

Kevin, this is posted in response to a current thread in the author promo area. I was about to click 'reply' on that author's thread but did not want to hurt their feelings by singling them out, so I posted a more general thread hoping for some feedback from others. I am not on a 'witch hunt' and do plenty to support authors here (have you read my blog---which I do for free, by the way?) My problem is, sometimes I feel like I do more to support them than they do, and this as a reader should not be my job.

So no, it is not a re-hash. It is about something going on right now. I can point you to the thread if you'd like.

[L.J. Sellers]

Begging and threatening are not real tools in a promotional effort. They're childish, emotional reactions. The behavior makes me wonder about the mental health of the author. This business requires stability, self-confidence, and thick skin. I hope he/she learns that.
L.J.

[Digital Ink]

I ignore all self-promoting authors.

[Stormchild]

Originally Posted by Digital Ink

I ignore all self-promoting authors.

What a shortsighted attitude. Some of the best Authors are self promoted.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by Richard Herley

Please don't misunderstand me -- I didn't say readers had an obligation to do anything; it's just that in the new ecosystem (with authors publishing straight to ebook) we would all benefit if readers became more active as critics. I agree that, for the self-publishing author, promotion (however odious the author may find it) goes with the territory.

I've downloaded a few books that were self-promoted and/or self-published, but by the time I get around to reading them I've long since forgotten where I obtained the book. It would be very helpful if the author put in a page near the beginning of the book (in case I don't like the book and don't make it to the end) and near the end of the book (to remind me when I finish it) WHERE to go to leave a review.

[Patricia Ryan]

Originally Posted by taming

A good friend of mine had a book published by a major publisher last year. Even in that situation, expectations have changed. She was encouraged by both her editor and her agent to develop a website (on her own), create a Facebook fan page, twitter, and interact with potential readers in numerous ways.

For sure--self-promotion is nothing new. I've been doing it for my print books for 15 years, and I literally don't know any traditionally published authors who don't. Unless you're positioned in a very big way by the publisher, they don't do a heck of a lot to get your name out there.

As for how effective self-promotion is--even aside from the question of obnoxious over-promoters--that's anybody's guess. Fiction is sold largely by word of mouth, so the best advice I've ever heard on the subject, which I try to bear in mind myself, is to spend the bulk of your time and energy writing the very, very best book you possibly can.

I'm not convinced that social networking is terribly effective as a promotional tool (I didn't do much of it until I found myself with some time on my hands this summer), so IMHO the smart author does it for the same reason everyone else does, because it's fun and diverting to chat about books with other readers. The existence of dedicated self-promo threads and promotional sig lines makes it easy to confine one's marketing efforts there, and then just enjoy the forum for what it is.

Kumbabjorn, I must respectfully (sincerely, because I know you have the authors' interests at heart) disagree with the notion that readers owe us anything. Yes, word of mouth is critical, and we love it when a reader review shows up somewhere. But I believe the reader's obligation is to pay for (rather than steal) the book, period. Our job as writers is to entertain. If we do that job really well, our readers may want to recommend our books to others, in which case our audience will grow organically. But to expect that, after they've gone to the trouble and expense of aquiring your book in the first place, strikes me as a bit much.

Pat

[queentess]

Originally Posted by Kumabjorn

Isn't there an American saying; "There is no such thing as a free lunch"? Hence, there is also, in my mind, an unwritten social contract between an author - providing a book free of charge - and a reader taking advantage of that offer. Granted, that doesn't imply a review within a few days, but certainly within a few weeks.

If I submitted a book for free reading it would come with a contract. 50 free books, each reader signing a contract that they will read the book withing three weeks, and submit a review in another week. Seems fair to everyone involved.

Uh, no. I'll download a book if it looks remotely interesting, but I have a 200+ TBR list right now and a small child at home. I'll get to the book when I get to it. And downloading something that was offered free does not obligate me to the author in any way. The author can ASK for a review, and I may review it whether or not they ask, but it's not a contract, implied or otherwise. Having such a 'contract' in place will only make people less likely to download the book at all.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by queentess

Uh, no. I'll download a book if it looks remotely interesting, but I have a 200+ TBR list right now

Downloading everything that looks remotely interesting means that I have a TBR list closer to 200,000 than to 200.

[ardeegee]

Originally Posted by Patricia Ryan

For sure--self-promotion is nothing new. I've been doing it for my print books for 15 years, and I literally don't know any traditionally published authors who don't.

There is self-promoting, and then there is sounding like a used car salesman or a carnival barker. The problem isn't (putting my own words in the OP's mouth) self promotion-- it is theatrics and BS. "Hard sales" are annoying and offensive. (As is whining.)

[ficbot]

Yeah, I could probably spend the rest of my life on pulp mystery novels from Project Gutenberg and not run out of stuff. My dad, geek that he is, has yet to stray beyond the 100 freebies on his Kobo.

[queentess]

Originally Posted by Patricia Ryan

As for how effective self-promotion is--even aside from the question of obnoxious over-promoters--that's anybody's guess. Fiction is sold largely by word of mouth, so the best advice I've ever heard on the subject, which I try to bear in mind myself, is to spend the bulk of your time and energy writing the very, very best book you possibly can.

Pat

A thousand times THIS. Take, for instance, my recent experience with a traditionally published author. I'd heard about his work from some other people, so I bought the first in the series and read it. I immediately purchased the other two books in the series and read them right away. After that, I bought two more complete series to give to my brother and my dad, and my brother has since bought a set to give to one of his friends. If you write a book really well, it will spread organically.

[Kumabjorn]

Originally Posted by Patricia Ryan

Kumbabjorn, I must respectfully (sincerely, because I know you have the authors' interests at heart) disagree with the notion that readers owe us anything. Yes, word of mouth is critical, and we love it when a reader review shows up somewhere. But I believe the reader's obligation is to pay for (rather than steal) the book, period. Our job as writers is to entertain. If we do that job really well, our readers may want to recommend our books to others, in which case our audience will grow organically. But to expect that, after they've gone to the trouble and expense of aquiring your book in the first place, strikes me as a bit much.

Pat

My point, albeit not eloquently expressed, was that if an author provides a new book for free, either for a time span, but more likely a limited number of downloads, and as a proviso has stated that shis (is that gender neutral enough?) intention is to receive reader input on the material, then I can decide if I want to download it and provide that input, or pass on the offer.
To me it is a little like being a beta tester of new software. You get to test it before anyone else, with warts and all, and hopefully your discoveries will help make it a better product. Hence, I see the author's free download offer as a second draft, on the brink of being publishable, but in dire need of some extra eyes to kill of those last beloved darlings that need to go.

However, if I paid for the pleasure of reading the text, then I totally agree, I have absolutely no other obligation than to myself and my delectable interest in the text. Even to the extent that the book after five pages or so may find itself the dogged victim of the digital dustbin.

[Vintage Season]

Originally Posted by Patricia Ryan

As for how effective self-promotion is--even aside from the question of obnoxious over-promoters--that's anybody's guess. Fiction is sold largely by word of mouth, so the best advice I've ever heard on the subject, which I try to bear in mind myself, is to spend the bulk of your time and energy writing the very, very best book you possibly can.

Originally Posted by queentess

A thousand times THIS. Take, for instance, my recent experience with a traditionally published author. I'd heard about his work from some other people, so I bought the first in the series and read it. I immediately purchased the other two books in the series and read them right away. After that, I bought two more complete series to give to my brother and my dad, and my brother has since bought a set to give to one of his friends. If you write a book really well, it will spread organically.

As an author, I have to assume that is exactly what has been working in my favor. I posted a freebie on Smashwords back in April, and started a thread to let people know it was available. Then every time I encountered someone complaining about authors self-promoting or endlessly bumping their own announcements, a nervous little voice in the back of my mind said, "Are they talking about me?"

Somewhere along the way, I started doing less talking and more writing... and the more I shut my self-promotional yapper, and simply focused on being a good wordsmith and storyteller, the better that first story did. It was a simple lesson, but a valuable one: word of someone else's mouth works far better than my own, as a promotional tool.

- M.