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Old 02-08-2018, 05:37 PM   #1
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Writing with pen & paper (but it's not working)

So, here's the thing. I love pens. And I love notebooks. I take one wherever I go and jot down thoughts and bits of stories that I'm working on. Especially in cafes. I've been doing it for decades.

My problem comes because I'm not always disciplined enough to then transcribe them into the computer. Although, lately I'm trying to make more of an effort.

I did use a Livescribe pen & paper for a while, but the pen spudded out and the new ones work in a way that doesn't suit my workflow (i.e. I don't want to have to connect to the internet/cloud just to "download" my scribblings...can you "download" to the cloud? Upload. Whatever.).

How do you manage your writings? Why do I keep buying pens?
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Old 02-09-2018, 07:58 AM   #2
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skb, If you really like pen and paper then try to approach it both realistically and methodically.

First: Work out your expectations? (Not hopes, nothing so vague and often deluded, but what you can realistically expect of yourself, knowing who you are and how you work.)

Second: See how you can streamline the mechanics of achieving those expectations.


I suggest that you give up the idea of directly transcribing notes into your computer; that's not (in my opinion) a good use your time and resources. Instead, concentrate on the best features of each (paper vs computer) and try to merge them.

For example:

Label your notebooks - I generally use a date range printed on the front, but you may find it simpler just to number them. Also work out whether you can be bothered numbering the pages (it can help for what I'm about to suggest, but it's not essential, or you might split it into marked quarters as it's easy enough to use a pen to mark the outer edges of the notebook pages so that the quarters are visible, almost like tabs). Now, on your computer you set up one or more files as indexes into your notebooks. You might have a simple text file like this:

Code:
Book#   Section   Subject                  Keywords
  25      Q2      Zombies on the 'net      Comedy, Gory
  25      Q3      Vampires of the Sahara   Movie-script
Or you might create a database or spreadsheet for greater flexibility.

Now you have something searchable on your computer that directs you to which notebook (and approximately where in that notebook) to find it.


An alternative is to scan or photograph the pages of your note book and use relevant software to add labels/descriptions to the scanned images. (You can embed all sorts of searchable fields inside jpeg and some other image types - search for information on IPTC or XMP, or I can offer more detail here if you need it.) If you were going to photograph the pages you might set up a little stand to hold your phone the right height to make this quick and easy.


If you end up writing long drafts on paper then treat them like drafts: don't transcribe so much as edit onto the computer (besides, I always think that editing the first draft is much better on paper). Again you can use scans or photos to allow you to backup your drafts until the editing processing is done.


I've used a mixture of these approaches over the years, different approaches for different jobs. I rather like labelling scanned image files as an option, because you get to keep it all on the computer and once the label/description information is attached to the image it can be extracted out into databases for optimised searching or whatever; I've used this for helping to collate family history details.

Last edited by gmw; 02-09-2018 at 08:02 AM. Reason: typos
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:03 PM   #3
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I made my first sales back in 1979, so handwriting was a practical necessity. Back then I was very particular about my pens -- in my case, I wrote almost exclusively with fiber tipped pens -- and wrote in spiral bound notebooks.

These days I write with pen and paper for my first drafts or when I want to capture ideas on the run. It's slower for me than keyboarding, so it's a good match for the "thinking it out while writing" approach I use for first drafts. Transcribing to the computer has never bothered me much, but I never simply transcribe -- for me, this constitutes my first edit.

I should also point out that I write short stories -- I would probably need to be more disciplined If I ever tried a longer work.

As far as buying pens goes, a lot of writers develop superstitions about their writing tools. It's usually pretty harmless. I'm thinking back to my fiber tipped pen days -- these days I've grown out of that phase. They felt comfortable in my hand, I liked the way the ink looked on the paper, I felt more confident knowing I had one or two in my pocket, etc.

If they're inexpensive pens -- live it up! If, on the other hand, you're collecting a drawer full of fine writing instruments, you might need to address your OCD.

I'm not sure I have any tips to impart, but this is how I manage. Good luck with your writing!
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Old 02-09-2018, 01:28 PM   #4
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I write ideas out in longhand, than type them up independently while occasionally referring to the first draft. I don't transcribe religiously, because that often means I focus too much on my initial wording and not enough on the flow of ideas.

What kind of pens are you buying? Are you doing it systematically to find the one that will suit your hand the best, or just as the fancy strikes?

I used to buy a ton of pens, but finally buckled down and carefully went about working out which one actually fit my hand. It turns out that the most comfortable pen for me is a slim fountain pens, like the vintage Esterbrooks or some of the modern lower cost Pilots and Noodlers. Everyone's hand is different, and you might be buying pens because you haven't found one that actually feels right yet. Having a writing setup that fits your hand can make as big a difference as having clothes that are the right size.

I can talk about the various factors that go into making a pen comfortable if you're interested?
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Old 02-09-2018, 06:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gmw View Post
I suggest that you give up the idea of directly transcribing notes into your computer; that's not (in my opinion) a good use your time and resources. Instead, concentrate on the best features of each (paper vs computer) and try to merge them.

<my snip>
If you end up writing long drafts on paper then treat them like drafts: don't transcribe so much as edit onto the computer (besides, I always think that editing the first draft is much better on paper). Again you can use scans or photos to allow you to backup your drafts until the editing processing is done.
Scans! This is brilliant! I had never even considered scans (and I'm a geek!).

I think you may've hit the nail on the head with transcribing. I should treat the notes as first drafts (although some are only scratched out thought bubbles).

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmw View Post
Code:
Book#   Section   Subject                  Keywords
  25      Q2      Zombies on the 'net      Comedy, Gory
  25      Q3      Vampires of the Sahara   Movie-script
Have you been reading over my shoulder?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rbneader View Post
I used to buy a ton of pens, but finally buckled down and carefully went about working out which one actually fit my hand. It turns out that the most comfortable pen for me is a slim fountain pens, like the vintage Esterbrooks or some of the modern lower cost Pilots and Noodlers. Everyone's hand is different, and you might be buying pens because you haven't found one that actually feels right yet. Having a writing setup that fits your hand can make as big a difference as having clothes that are the right size.

I can talk about the various factors that go into making a pen comfortable if you're interested?
I love fountain pens, but they're usually so...lumpy. I have small hands, so I like to go for slimmer pens. With fine tips. I may think a little too much about pens (I didn't know about Noodlers...oh my, they look so neat. Oh-oh). But comfort matters - especially these days I do more keyboarding than writing and I get tired quicker. So tips for finding the pen "sweet spot" would be welcome, thank you!

Quote:
Originally Posted by cromag View Post
These days I write with pen and paper for my first drafts or when I want to capture ideas on the run. It's slower for me than keyboarding, so it's a good match for the "thinking it out while writing" approach I use for first drafts. Transcribing to the computer has never bothered me much, but I never simply transcribe -- for me, this constitutes my first edit.
I think you and gmw are really on to something here. I have been (when motivated) transcribing directly. I'm thinking I would be better served to, as you suggest, edit.

You've all given me so much to think about. The labelled notebooks really appeals to me although, I'm not sure I'd be disciplined enough. What I should be doing, at the very least, is keeping the drafts/ideas separate (my current "system" is using headings and I might have three or four snippets of different story plans on one page). Using a page per idea or subject would make the whole scanning thing easier. I think I've been looking at this the wrong way around. A whole new world opens up to me. Wow.

This has been wonderful, thank you, everyone.
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Old 02-09-2018, 08:32 PM   #6
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Scans! This is brilliant! I had never even considered scans (and I'm a geek!).

I think you may've hit the nail on the head with transcribing. I should treat the notes as first drafts (although some are only scratched out thought bubbles)...
I don't do a lot of hand note writing but even though I have a scanner I find it quicker and easier to just scan notes and sketches with my cellphone. One can just photograph them but Android apps such as Microsoft's Office Lens automatically select the note itself (trimming out surrounding background) and corrects distortion of the image if the camera lens is not exactly over the center of the note (i.e. the scan is perfectly rectangular).
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Old 02-10-2018, 02:29 AM   #7
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I don't do a lot of hand note writing but even though I have a scanner I find it quicker and easier to just scan notes and sketches with my cellphone. One can just photograph them but Android apps such as Microsoft's Office Lens automatically select the note itself (trimming out surrounding background) and corrects distortion of the image if the camera lens is not exactly over the center of the note (i.e. the scan is perfectly rectangular).
Good thinking. I have an app on my phone which I've had for years and never used much called Scanner Pro. I'm pretty sure I can then email the scans to say, Evernote (or even just email them to myself).

I'm very excited about this scanning idea. If I could only stop thinking about Noodlers.
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Old 02-10-2018, 02:36 AM   #8
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Android apps such as Microsoft's Office Lens automatically select the note itself (trimming out surrounding background) and corrects distortion of the image if the camera lens is not exactly over the center of the note (i.e. the scan is perfectly rectangular).
Office Lens is great (and free). +1 on that recommendation.
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Old 02-10-2018, 03:20 AM   #9
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[...]
I'm very excited about this scanning idea. If I could only stop thinking about Noodlers.
I take it this is not what is meant by noodlers in this context. And I presume it's not related to canoodling (although this latter I could quite understand you not being able to "stop thinking" about ).
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Old 02-10-2018, 04:39 AM   #10
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I take it this is not what is meant by noodlers in this context...
Not this, I hope!





My apologies for hijacking your thread, skb!

Scanning sounds like an interesting idea, and not one that I'd thought of. My plans for my next generation of transcription was to use the "voice-to-text" function of one of my Android tablets. I've been experimenting with it for a while.

On the one hand there are some limitations, especially with text formatting (or, the lack thereof). On the other hand, I tend to read aloud to myself when I'm editing anyway -- hearing the story helps me get into it a bit more.

Anyway, as I said, so far I haven't gone beyond test reading a few paragraphs.
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Old 02-10-2018, 06:32 AM   #11
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Pens! Noodlers are pens (I don't know if they're any good but they have an awesome name)!

Woe on the Office Lens - I'm on a Mac. It looks pretty good though.

I've found my Scanner Pro app and updated it. It sends to (among others) Evernote and Dropbox and says it does OCR but it'd struggle with my scrawl.

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My apologies for hijacking your thread, skb!
No worries. You (generic you) can get all sorts of story ideas from digressions. However, I don't think I'll be eating or writing about fish anytime soon. Poor little fishy!
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Old 02-10-2018, 09:31 AM   #12
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Pens! Noodlers are pens (I don't know if they're any good but they have an awesome name)!

Woe on the Office Lens - I'm on a Mac. It looks pretty good though.
It's available for iPhone as well as Android (and Windows Phones).
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Old 02-10-2018, 01:04 PM   #13
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Scanning is a wonderful idea! I do have hand scrawled notes here there and everywhere, which I usually go through to incorporate into the story later, but sometimes I'm in such a hurry my scrawl is hard to read. And I also dictate into my phone and it goes to print later in Google Docs, and I keyboard too. But everything that helps, helps!

I love the look of those Noodler pens but if I'm on a roll I wouldn't want to have to stop and refill. Of course just having 3 or 4 sitting there ready to go would be a solution to that, but a pretty expensive one!

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Old 02-10-2018, 04:17 PM   #14
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It's available for iPhone as well as Android (and Windows Phones).
It is! I missed that totally. And I can use my pretty much unused MS Office Subscription on my iphone too (I had no idea they'd changed that).

Thanks for the suggestion about Lens folks.
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Old 02-11-2018, 12:50 AM   #15
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I went with runes myself. For a while I used to carve my ideas in the bark of the trees in the local woods but I got busted and did time. So then I moved on to carving in soapstone. But I didn't like it. All this new fangled tech. There's something about baking in clay that aided the creative process for me, so now I use cueiform. The only problem is the indexing system
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