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Old 11-02-2019, 11:10 AM   #46
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TropicCat

Thanks for the Simple solution:
You just volunteered to maintain QTwebKit <applause>

that way, Kovid could continue using it, thus making you happy about the UI

Again, the many folk who hate the new UI, applaud your effort (and want to know WHEN your fixed version of WebKit will be ready for main stream use)
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Old 11-02-2019, 04:13 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by JSWolf View Post
The underlying software used for Calibre has changed.

https://calibre-ebook.com/new-in/thirteen
Neither the new version of Qt or the replacement of Webkit with Webengine, necessitated the changes to the viewer UI that TropicCat references. The Editor uses the same components and it's UI hasn't changed.

The version 4 viewer's UI is inherited from the browser hosted viewer code-base included with calibre-server version 3; which is precisely what Kovid said he'd be doing on the several occasions he mentioned the development of a new viewer after version 3 was released in June 2017.

As far as I know the browser based server/viewer will run on non Blink (web engine) browsers, such as Firefox (Gecko) and Safari (Webkit)

BR

Last edited by BetterRed; 11-02-2019 at 04:22 PM.
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Old 11-02-2019, 08:53 PM   #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TropicCat View Post
Quote:
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If you have ideas to improve the viewer then ask Kovid and see if they can be implemented. Whining is counter-productive.
Whining is counter-productive????
Yes, yes it is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TropicCat View Post
This is called FUNCTIONALITY. No one is arguing you can't search through Calipre and figure a way to do each of these things. The argument is that is used to be all in one convenient place.
As it turns out the functionality is still in one convenient place. The difference is it places it behind the scenes allowing more room on devices for reading. Since this viewer is now aligned with the web viewer (used on mobile devices) it is a better call to place the preferences on the back burner.

Aligning the 2 viewers (desktop and web) into one allows development on issues such as highlighting and annotating to move up in priority which this viewer has been lacking. When these get added it will be a large step forward for this viewer.

Quote:
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You call this Whining? No ... it more like calling it what it is ... a giant step backward.
Thinking of this as a "giant step backward" is limited in vision, not seeing the forest through the trees. It is only now that the two viewers use the same code base that the development of the viewer can progress. Prior to this the development was stagnant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TropicCat View Post
This app has gone from the gold standard in ebook management and reading to an 'also ran'.
I would love you to name one other program that competes with calibre on the "ebook management" front. Calibre is and has always been a ebook management application. And currently no one does it better. With the streamlining of the code base for the two viewers Kovid is in a position to start moving forward with real development on the viewer and web app fronts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TropicCat View Post
I suggest you stop cheering on this retrograde ... and guide the author to put it back on track.
With this gem we come full circle with what I stated in the initial quote you criticized. I'll state it again,

"If you have ideas to improve the viewer then ask Kovid and see if they can be implemented."

As development moves forward I can see Kovid possibly giving the users the option to make certain items dock-able like he does now for the table of contents. For those that love the TOC to show it can stay at the forefront and open automatically with each new book chosen.

Last edited by DoctorOhh; 11-03-2019 at 07:21 AM.
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Old 11-02-2019, 09:35 PM   #49
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As development moves forward I can see Kovid possibly giving the users the option to make certain items dock-able like he does now for the table of contents. For those that love the TOC to show it can stay at the forefront and open automatically with each new book chosen.
Indeed. As a matter of fact, the toolbar is back (and will be available on the next release). It will come hidden as default, but can be easily enabled.
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Old 11-03-2019, 04:08 AM   #50
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And I suggest you get real. Stick to the version that works for you (and hasn't been taken away away from you), or adjust to the new version. Those are the choices. "Put it back the way it was" isn't a productive improvement suggestion. It's an entitled whinge.
For the record, Kovid has stated that he removed the toolbar because a lot of people complained. But, the people who were happy with the toolbar and thought it was a good idea, would have said nothing. And, until it disappeared, wouldn't have even thought about it being completely removed, so wouldn't have realised they needed to express an opinion. I know I was shocked when I first saw it. And that was after having followed Kovid's comments for a while the new viewer being based on the web viewer. I assumed that meant how the book was render and displayed. I never expected it to affect the controls.

And the "entitled whinge's" seem to have worked. Kovid added a toolbar to the viewer last week.
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Old 11-03-2019, 05:32 AM   #51
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For the record, Kovid has stated that he removed the toolbar because a lot of people complained. But, the people who were happy with the toolbar and thought it was a good idea, would have said nothing.
Puzzles me why the people who didn't want the toolbar didn't (or get told how to) get rid of it, by unchecking Show controls in the viewer window in Preferences, and then using the Show/Hide Controls toggle if/when they needed it.

BR

Last edited by BetterRed; 11-03-2019 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 11-03-2019, 06:20 AM   #52
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Puzzles me why the people who didn't want the toolbar didn't (or get told how to) get rid of it, by unchecking Show controls in the viewer window in Preferences, and then using the Show/Hide Controls toggle if/when they needed it.

BR
I didn't know it could be hidden either. Most people, me included, generally uses it as it comes by default.
Then, driven by some need or annoyance, one might try to make some tweaks. I never felt the need to hide the toolbar, so I never looked for this setting.

But, one might not know what he really likes before testing... Now I love not having the bar on the lateral.

When the toolbar gets back, I will probably dock it at the bottom, or maybe continue with it hidden...
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Old 11-03-2019, 08:12 AM   #53
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And the "entitled whinge's" seem to have worked. Kovid added a toolbar to the viewer last week.
Changes nothing about whether or not it was (and still is) entitled whingeing. You think Kovid added a toolbar for the people who joined the forum just to scream about hating the new viewer and abuse those who didn't agree with them?
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Old 11-07-2019, 03:38 AM   #54
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You wanna big whinge...

The UI sacrifice at the alter of the Tablet & Phone is no longer a joke for real computer users.

I could say more, but I'll censor myself out of courtesy.

Good news though, the Viewer Toolbar is coming back, that I'll believe when I actually see it.

Ax
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:14 AM   #55
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You wanna big whinge...

The UI sacrifice at the alter of the Tablet & Phone is no longer a joke for real computer users.

I could say more, but I'll censor myself out of courtesy.

Good news though, the Viewer Toolbar is coming back, that I'll believe when I actually see it.

Ax
I'm a real computer user. I have been one since 1973 (DEC PDP8). I was a purpose built computer user, from the late 1960's.
IMHO Things change. Paper tape -> flash , Teletype keyboards to touch screens and voice commands.

Get over it. It will change (again)
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Old 11-07-2019, 05:27 PM   #56
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I'm a real computer user. I have been one since 1973 (DEC PDP8). I was a purpose built computer user, from the late 1960's.
IMHO Things change. Paper tape -> flash , Teletype keyboards to touch screens and voice commands.

Get over it. It will change (again)
Lubrication instructions for a Teletype model 33. Remove the 4 marked parts and lower it into a barrel of oil for 5 minutes. Remove, let drain for 5 minutes, install removed parts and put back into service.

The first minicomputers we used where I was working were Data General Nova's and Nova 1200's back when core memory used real cores.
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:08 PM   #57
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I stumbled on this recently

If, as is suggested, it's the Ferranti Sirius that Australian ICI Research Labs gave to Monash U, then it's the actual first computer I used - for polymer strain calculations. It was also used for sheep feed supplement simulation - rumen analysis. You could see the mercury delay line memory bits flip.

It was operated/programmed by a team of women, Moira and Janet taught me Autocoder. I'm sure there was a greater proportion of women in computing in the 60's and 70's than there are today - PCs and the Web seemed to be the turning point.

When TPTB turned off the Sirius and told us we had to use the HO IBM 360, the polymer research group (where I worked as a lab technician) decided to use one of these Programma 101. Shortly after I got a my first job as a programmer - Fortran on a CDC 6400.

BR

Last edited by BetterRed; 11-07-2019 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 11-07-2019, 06:33 PM   #58
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back when core memory used real cores.
Apple, I presume?
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Old 11-07-2019, 08:57 PM   #59
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When TPTB turned off the Sirius and told us we had to use the HO IBM 360, the polymer research group (where I worked as a lab technician) decided to use one of these Programma 101. Shortly after I got a my first job as a programmer - Fortran on a CDC 6400.
This is off-topic, but it is interesting how stories overlap. The first "computer" I used was a Programma 101 when I was somewhere around age 16. I "graduated" to an IBM 1130, then to all of a 1620, a CDC 6400, and various PDP11s. The 6400 operators wouldn't let us peons play space invaders running on the machine's IO processors. The 1620 was fun because it did basic math using memory lookup tables that we could change, making it think that (for example) 2 + 2 = 7 (the physicists loved us ). The PDP11s were running RSX11 but were switched to UNIX (V6) by the time I touched them.

And for those of you who used TTY Model 33s: "values of β will give rise to dom."
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Old 11-07-2019, 09:09 PM   #60
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Lubrication instructions for a Teletype model 33. Remove the 4 marked parts and lower it into a barrel of oil for 5 minutes. Remove, let drain for 5 minutes, install removed parts and put back into service.

The first minicomputers we used where I was working were Data General Nova's and Nova 1200's back when core memory used real cores.
I worked for Tri-Data right after I got out of the Navy. We had both of those and a HP2116 (It had handles: It took 2 men and a boy, to move that 240Lb beast), loads of different DEC models. All for R&D and test beds.

to the Oil Bath. But first, you soaked them in a solvent tank (TCE)
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